YCbCr Switching?
#1
Newbie question here, I have an LG OLEDB6 which supports HDR.

Im contemplating upgrading my popcorn hour VTEN which doesnt support BT2020 and now looking at a completely new device (possibly a Minix U9).
Just testing my VTEN with 4K content this week ive found the colours were all washed out when trying to play 4K content.

If Im looking a new player with Kodi and set the YCbCr output to BT2020, will this play all content regardless (HDR/Non HDR/1080p etc) in the correct colours or will kodi/the player need to switch the colour outputs?

Sorry if its a daft question.

p.s does anyone have any thoughts on the Minix vs the sheild?
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#2
Hi - this has already been covered in the following thread:

Auto frame rate switching & dynamic range matching - 4K (HDR10) capable Hardware

Basically the Shield lacks auto colorspace switching support in it's Nougat Firmware. Some say auto colorspace switching might come with an Android Oreo Firmware update - maybe.
Android TV - Oreo has been delayed and NVIDIA are waiting on Google to get their shit together. 3rd party App developers are not exactly jumping on the ATV Oreo bandwagon quickly either.

So if you want to watch mixed SDR and HDR content with the correct color output currently with the Shield you have to dig deep into Android settings and switch colorspaces manually each and every time = a long term PITA.
OR leave it in a permanent 4K HDR REC.2020 Colorspace and then put up with poor quality 720/1080p > 4K picture upscaling (vs the competition) and incorrect SDR color output. It's a no win situation for a movie lover.

The Shield does have Dolby Atmos and DTS:X passthrough audio support. The LibreELEC AMLogic S9xx / MINIX U9 boxes also have this as well. The Apple TV 4K will give you bit perfect 7.1 Multichannel PCM audio output from HD audio sources. So you lose spacial 3D audio from Atmos and DTS:X with that device. Atmos audio passthrough support may be coming in a future ATV 4K Firmware update - maybe.

If you need easy to use 1080p SDR / 4K HDR paid for Apps video streaming support as well, the Apple TV 4K is the platform to get. The 4K HDR updated Infuse App on it is the easiest to use Movies and TV player getting around. I personally use the MrMC App (highly modded Kodi Jarvis fork/version) with a nicer Kodi Skin like Amber.

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#3
Wow, thanks for the detailed reply, this does make sense.
So just to check, colour switching is a function of the hardware and not software (I.e Kodi?).

Atmos pass through isn’t a requirement for me yet, but I’m leaning towards needing SDR/HDR switching and it needs to be stable (don’t really want to use test/development projects builds of OS’s).

I don’t have any further requirement from Apps other than Kodi as already using Netflix / Prime videos through the TV’s built in Apps which handles HDR fine.
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#4
On AMLogic S905X / S912 devices a user sets a Chroma and bit depth option like auto or 444,10bit once and then the AML Android/Linux Kernel (software) takes care of the rest of the auto REC.709 <<-->> BT.2020 colorspace switching independent of the Operating System (OS) used. The Kernel also does HDR > SDR conversion.

NVIDIA could do the same thing with the Shield, but they are waiting for a Google Application Programming Interface (API) that will include auto colorspace switching and conversion that hopefully comes with Google the Android Oreo OS. The Shield is already fully capable hardware wise because you can manually switch colorspaces yourself.

Apple TV 4K and it's Apps uses an already existing tvOS API. They seems to be bug busting and improving tvOS Firmware on an almost monthly basis at the moment and seem to be throwing a lot of resources at the platform vs the mainstream competition. It's a pretty impressive ARM chipset Apple have used under the hood.

LibreELEC or OSMC Kodi Krypton on those S905X / S912 devices can also do auto resolution switching so your 4K TV can do the 1080p > 4K picture upscaling if it already has really good upscaling hardware. 4K video content will be output at 4K after a 1080p > 4K auto resolution switch.

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#5
many thanks wrxtasy.

Any thoughts on Minix U9 with LibreELEC vs Vero 4K?

I know very little about the U9 running LibreELEC but watching reviews of the stock OS on the U9 is very slick and responsive. There's very few video reviews of the Vero4K.

Adam
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#6
Please read this regarding 4K HDR on S905X Vero 4K and S905X LibreELEC boxes when used specifically with OLED TV's like the LG B6:

HDR Slight flickering (Workaround available) (click)

And I wonder if AMLogic Noise reduction has been turned off which has been known to cause issues:
Code:
echo 0 > /sys/module/di/parameters/nr2_en
I'm not sure if there is a bug in LG OLED TV Firmware, because it does not seem to be AMLogic S905X only related:
Apple TV/LG TV issue

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#7
(2018-03-04, 12:12)wrxtasy Wrote: Please read this regarding 4K HDR on S905X Vero 4K and S905X LibreELEC boxes when used specifically with OLED TV's like the LG B6:

HDR Slight flickering (Workaround available) (click)

And I wonder if AMLogic Noise reduction has been turned off which has been known to cause issues:
Code:
echo 0 > /sys/module/di/parameters/nr2_en
I'm not sure if there is a bug in LG OLED TV Firmware, because it does not seem to be AMLogic S905X only related:
Apple TV/LG TV issue 

Ah - I wondered about noise reduction on AMLogic platforms. I've been comparing my Live TV through both a Vero 4K and a no-name S905X box running LibreElec with the same source through a Chromebox and a dedicated DVB-S2 receiver - and both AMLogic platforms had the tell-tale smeariness of noise reduction being applied, whilst the dedicated DVB-S2 receiver and Chromebox were nice and clean.
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#8
(2018-03-04, 03:46)wrxtasy Wrote: So if you want to watch mixed SDR and HDR content with the correct color output currently with the Shield you have to dig deep into Android settings and switch colorspaces manually each and every time = a long term PITA.
OR leave it in a permanent 4K HDR REC.2020 Colorspace and then put up with poor quality 720/1080p > 4K picture upscaling (vs the competition) and incorrect SDR color output. It's a no win situation for a movie lover.
It is a fact that the Shield cannot automatically switch color spaces and also that BT.709 to BT.2020 conversion is less than ideal, but the fact is this output is very close to the original BT.709 from the source. BT.2020 HDR to BT.709 SDR conversion is a story for another day Smile

The CIE 1931 chromaticity chart below shows BT.709 color checker pattern targets on a *perfect* BT.2020 display. This is all with SDR (BT.1886) transfer function. 

Blue rectangles are the reference BT.709 targets, Red diamonds are Shield's output when set to Rec. 709 color space, Green dots are Shield's Rec. 2020 output from BT.709 source. The smaller triangle represents the boundaries for BT.709 and the larger one for BT.2020.

The 100% primaries are completely off, but the chart represents what you will get on a display that has 100% BT.2020 coverage. No display available on market today has a BT.2020 gamut this large, so those primaries are going to be closer to DCI-P3 or BT.709 primaries.

Image
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#9
4K HDR flicker should be fixed in today’s update.

Noise reduction is also disabled out of the box in this update. @noggin — it would be good if you could test live tv again.

Sam
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#10
(2018-03-05, 21:18)Sam.Nazarko Wrote: 4K HDR flicker should be fixed in today’s update.

Noise reduction is also disabled out of the box in this update. @noggin — it would be good if you could test live tv again.

Sam
 Should be able to do that on Thursday Sam.
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