[nekrosoft13]

some people don't like linux

but that brings up another question why linux is getting special exception?

[tslayer]

Because vdpau is for unix only. If you find it for windows, please let us know!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU

[jmarshall]

It's real simple: Because a developer coded it up for linux.

If a developer comes along that wants to do the same for DXVA or whatever, they're more than welcome to do so.

[tslayer]

jmarshall's answer is better than mine

[natethomas]

I swear I just wrote that.

Edit: I did! I did just write that! On the first page of this very thread, in fact! Nekrosoft, I recommend reading what I write before forcing to a developer to repeat it in shorter sentences.

[jmarshall]

If we all repeat it, perhaps it will stick

[xanadu1979]

some people don't like linux

but that brings up another question why linux is getting special exception?

Would you rather they didn't support Windows at all?

Linux gets the most attention because (I assume) OSX is just another Unix-based OS and the AppleTV is a pretty popular platform for XBMC. It also allows them to do stuff like XBMC-Live.

Targeting Linux might make it possible for somebody to release a XBMC-box sometime in the future. Go look at Boxee's blog, they're already considering doing this (Boxee is based on XBMC). You could never do that with Windows.

Long story short. Target Unix and you can run your software pretty much anywhere. Targeting Windows only allows you to run it in Windows.

[phi2039]

Windows gets less attention because fewer developers are running/developing on Windows. It's really that simple.

As for the program suffering because it is being developed as platform agnostic, consider the alternative that it had been left on the XBOX, its original platform. Then this whole dialog would be moot...

<rant>If you are interested in using MediaPortal instead, I am sure you know where to find it. Good luck accessing and playing all the same content available on XBMC. </rant>

[Livin]

GPU decoding would be nice, most definitely. I'd be able to use an ATOM chip and have a silent HTPC. I'd personally like to see GPU decoding on ANY platform for this reason alone... I could build a small, low-power, silent HTPC.

Targeting Linux might make it possible for somebody to release a XBMC-box sometime in the future. Go look at Boxee's blog, they're already considering doing this (Boxee is based on XBMC). You could never do that with Windows.

A Windows based OS can be used in an 'appliance' style HTPC... they are already. A little factoid for those of you that bash/hate Windows... please don't go to the hospital, fly on an airplane, ride on the space shuttle, or go to the international space station... because your life will be depending directly on systems (life support, navigational, etc) that run Windows OS... and YES, the SAME kernel that runs on your HP/Dell/etc.

"You could never do that with Windows" - were you being sarcastic? I'll just be kind and assume your profession does not have to do with computers.

Long story short. Target Unix and you can run your software pretty much anywhere. Targeting Windows only allows you to run it in Windows.

So you can write Unix code and run it on my Windows Mobile 6 phone? Sweet... show me.
Maybe you are correct... why should we even bother writing Windows coded apps that can run on a MERE 98% of the desktops in the world running Windows... shame on us. What were we thinking... crazy huh. We should totally exclude the largest desktop based computing architecture in the world.

You are acting like the Linux PCs cannot run Windows... or vice versa. Well bro, they can... both ways. x86 is x86. We are not talking mainframe (oh yea, some of those run Windows too).

I'm not a Windows fanboy, I actually like OSX & several flavors of Linux but your post is crazy wrong on almost every level.

here's a relevant comparison to real life...

Unix/Linux/OSX (Xs) is akin to Diesel Gasoline
- diesel is great fuel, no doubt
- not always available depending on where you are, more limited supply
- not as many people use it or develop engines to run it.
Windows is akin to Standard Gasoline
- maybe not the best but widely used and runs perfect for most cases
- very easy to get, almost anywhere in the world

It is true that Diesel (Xs) engines can be put into nearly any car on the road but they are not. In the US they are a very small percentage of vehicles.

While Standard (Windows) engines can also be put into nearly any car on the road... and they are in most.

Now, I'm not stating one engine or fuel is better than the other, simply stating verifiable facts that one is used more that the other by a huge margin.

Windows gets less attention because fewer developers are running/developing on Windows. It's really that simple.

As for the program suffering because it is being developed as platform agnostic, consider the alternative that it had been left on the XBOX, its original platform. Then this whole dialog would be moot...

<rant>If you are interested in using MediaPortal instead, I am sure you know where to find it. Good luck accessing and playing all the same content available on XBMC. </rant>

XBMC itself may have less Windows developers but in general there are many more Windows developers in the world than any other OS. Exponentially more.

And yes, the simple fact is ANY application will likely suffer if it is trying to be all things to all platforms... especially if one platform has less developers than another. Simple math dictates that possibility coupled with the fact that you are less likely to custom tailor that code to a specific OS and more likley to try to make much of it universal... e.g. using OpenGL on windows is not ideal, you'd use DirectX as it is more widely supported. OpenGL works, yes, but Windows drivers are not optimized for it.

The "alternative" you give is irrelevant... if it was only staying on xbox, xbmc it would be pretty much dead. The core of the user & developer base would have likely left for another app that could grow. So, no it is not a moot point.

Your rant is funny... MediaPortal, being windows based, can run any content that Windows can... just like XBMC can. If you are talking about Python scripts, I don't consider that content but there are many 3rd party apps that could be launched with MP, just like you must do today with XBMC to run anything not scripted for XBMC... and blu-ray apps. And MP also has a plug-in ability.



You are all so passionate about your opinion that you forget and get blinded by your biases or assumptions. Chill out and be happy that you get to pick the OS you want to run with the app you want to use. Is it perfect, no, nothing ever is in life... deal with it.

[ashlar]

Long story short. Target Unix and you can run your software pretty much anywhere. Targeting Windows only allows you to run it in Windows.

Yeah, we're only talking about the single largest installed base for any OS, after all...

Mind you, I've made my peace with the majority of choices happening with XBMC but still, discounting Windows as it's some kind of bothersome fly on the wall... that's kind of ironic, bordering on arrogance.

As for

Good luck accessing and playing all the same content available on XBMC.

While my HTPC road has been XBMC-->MediaPortal-->XBMC for Windows, I fail to understand what content would be available that MediaPortal would not be able to play back, considering it's a DirectShow based software.

Edit: missed Livin's post. He was more thorough than me.

I'd also like to add that bringing all of moby-uk work on the external player option to SVN will go a long way toward making the life of people craving HW decoding under Windows simpler.

[Geeba]

I would probably say a big percentage of the the devs are (no offence) are Apple/Linux fans..

"discounting Windows as it's some kind of bothersome fly on the wall... " I kinda get this feeling as well....

But as we all know its cool and trendy to hate M$ isnt it?

[phi2039]

GPU decoding would be nice, most definitely. I'd be able to use an ATOM chip and have a silent HTPC. I'd personally like to see GPU decoding on ANY platform for this reason alone... I could build a small, low-power, silent HTPC.



A Windows based OS can be used in an 'appliance' style HTPC... they are already. A little factoid for those of you that bash/hate Windows... please don't go to the hospital, fly on an airplane, ride on the space shuttle, or go to the international space station... because your life will be depending directly on systems (life support, navigational, etc) that run Windows OS... and YES, the SAME kernel that runs on your HP/Dell/etc.

"You could never do that with Windows" - were you being sarcastic? I'll just be kind and assume your profession does not have to do with computers.



So you can write Unix code and run it on my Windows Mobile 6 phone? Sweet... show me.
Maybe you are correct... why should we even bother writing Windows coded apps that can run on a MERE 98% of the desktops in the world running Windows... shame on us. What were we thinking... crazy huh. We should totally exclude the largest desktop based computing architecture in the world.

You are acting like the Linux PCs cannot run Windows... or vice versa. Well bro, they can... both ways. x86 is x86. We are not talking mainframe (oh yea, some of those run Windows too).

I'm not a Windows fanboy, I actually like OSX & several flavors of Linux but your post is crazy wrong on almost every level.

here's a relevant comparison to real life...

Unix/Linux/OSX (Xs) is akin to Diesel Gasoline
- diesel is great fuel, no doubt
- not always available depending on where you are, more limited supply
- not as many people use it or develop engines to run it.
Windows is akin to Standard Gasoline
- maybe not the best but widely used and runs perfect for most cases
- very easy to get, almost anywhere in the world

It is true that Diesel (Xs) engines can be put into nearly any car on the road but they are not. In the US they are a very small percentage of vehicles.

While Standard (Windows) engines can also be put into nearly any car on the road... and they are in most.

Now, I'm not stating one engine or fuel is better than the other, simply stating verifiable facts that one is used more that the other by a huge margin.



XBMC itself may have less Windows developers but in general there are many more Windows developers in the world than any other OS. Exponentially more.

And yes, the simple fact is ANY application will likely suffer if it is trying to be all things to all platforms... especially if one platform has less developers than another. Simple math dictates that possibility coupled with the fact that you are less likely to custom tailor that code to a specific OS and more likley to try to make much of it universal... e.g. using OpenGL on windows is not ideal, you'd use DirectX as it is more widely supported. OpenGL works, yes, but Windows drivers are not optimized for it.

The "alternative" you give is irrelevant... if it was only staying on xbox, xbmc it would be pretty much dead. The core of the user & developer base would have likely left for another app that could grow. So, no it is not a moot point.

Your rant is funny... MediaPortal, being windows based, can run any content that Windows can... just like XBMC can. If you are talking about Python scripts, I don't consider that content but there are many 3rd party apps that could be launched with MP, just like you must do today with XBMC to run anything not scripted for XBMC... and blu-ray apps. And MP also has a plug-in ability.



You are all so passionate about your opinion that you forget and get blinded by your biases or assumptions. Chill out and be happy that you get to pick the OS you want to run with the app you want to use. Is it perfect, no, nothing ever is in life... deal with it.

Well, as ONE of TWO (maybe 3) Windows devs who are working on YOUR behalf to improve the performance of XBMC on Windows, I would suggest you consider your audience before posting a critical reply in the forum. You highlight yet another reason why it is difficult to find anyone willing to contribute their time to resolving Windows issues in XBMC: arrogant users. Seeing as how I have actually spent many hours working on solutions to issues caused by the excellent system facilities you referenced (e.g. DirectX), I would be very open to looking at YOUR patches for the outstanding sound problems being experienced by other users.

Congratulations, you have given me one more good reason to consider focusing my development efforts solely on Linux, OSX, and XBox...and I am sure the rest of the Windows user community will thank you for it.

[ashlar]

Well, as ONE of TWO (maybe 3) Windows devs who are working on YOUR behalf to improve the performance of XBMC on Windows, I would suggest you consider your audience before posting a critical reply in the forum.

Ok, I start by saying all developers have my gratitude. Always. I personally greeted you when the announcement of your developing activities was made.

You highlight yet another reason why it is difficult to find anyone willing to contribute their time to resolving Windows issues in XBMC: arrogant users. Seeing as how I have actually spent many hours working on solutions to issues caused by the excellent system facilities you referenced (e.g. DirectX), I would be very open to looking at YOUR patches for the outstanding sound problems being experienced by other users.

I think one thing is easily forgotten. A pretty significant portion of the userbase I suspect is coming to XBMC from its Xbox roots. Statistically speaking, it's easy to see how the majority of those users will have a Windows computing background (as users, not developers) and not a Linux one.

Yet, in many instances, Windows users have been left with the sensation that the Windows version has been some sort of "unwanted child" in this project. The external player option has been ostracized for some time before being "admitted" to SVN, and we are talking about the only way to get hardware acceleration for the foreseeable future, on the Windows platform. I know there are good reasons for wanting the "all included" experience (and I, personally, am using DVDplayer and no external player) but still... stuff like that sends a message. And not necessarily one that the community can understand/agree with.

Congratulations, you have given me one more good reason to consider focusing my development efforts solely on Linux, OSX, and XBox...and I am sure the rest of the Windows user community will thank you for it.

As an insignificant part of the Windows user community I beg you to be patient and keep on contributing to the Windows build.

[natethomas]

Sometimes I think people forget that they are complaining about a free piece of software developed by people who are donating their own time and whose only recompense is a pretty sweet media center and the thanks of a grateful fanbase.

At least, I assume they are forgetting that. It's possible that they aren't, but they are just so in love with defending Windows, putting down Linux, or complaining generally that they figure following their old trite patterns is STILL a good idea.

Anyway, phi, please don't turn away from Windows. For my sake, and for the sake of the children! (I swear that was a movie line at some point.) Also, in reviewing Livin's rant, I'm not sure if he was actually being critical. He was just saying that we're pretty lucky XBMC is available on all platforms, even if there is a bit of a trade-off to allow for that.

While this was said in a relatively confrontational manner, I don't think it was intended to be meant as a put down or full-on complaint.

Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, I spent like two hours reading DXVA threads last night by other open source people. Neither the FFdshow people, nor the Doom9 people could figure it out. I have to take off my hat to the MPC-HC people. I don't know how they did it, but it's pretty impressive.

[phi2039]

I would probably say a big percentage of the the devs are (no offence) are Apple/Linux fans..

"discounting Windows as it's some kind of bothersome fly on the wall... " I kinda get this feeling as well....

But as we all know its cool and trendy to hate M$ isnt it?

The challenge here is that Microsoft can be less-than-forthcoming with architectural information when developers encounter a wall. For example, many of the DirectSound issues are related to quirks in the API, however, there is no way to get any more information than is available in the SDK. With Linux, I can simply pop open the source and have a look-see, or I can contact the person/group who developed the component I am having trouble with.

I have personally worked very closely with the Microsoft core OS developers in a past life and do not hate them at all. I understand the position they are in, and respectfully accept it.

One last point of note, since we have ventured completely off topic here, is that 'Windows' is not just one OS. XP and Vista (and now Win7) have significant differences, particularly in their handling of graphics and sound. This means that we are effectively developing on 2 (3) different platforms and must take all of the inconsistencies into account. I would love to use the new API's introduced in Vista, but the would leave XP users in the cold.

So, be patient, be helpful, submit GOOD bug reports, and we will all get where we want to be.

-C