[t029248]

When I get a piece of software I don't want to spend my entire day (or days) setting it all up. I don't want to search through forums to find out how to do something that should be simple

I couldn't agree more about that part!
Of course i like to have lots of settings , but the initial Out of the Box experience should be great! XBMC does that but for me some parts it can be improved. I'm not happy with the way Ir/Remote devices's are not working at least not yet, i'm glad to find out devs are working on this.

[topfs2]

I can't really see how the library can be much more user friendly, if you take Music library you right click and choose scan? that's it if you just want the basics. Sure it can be made automatic for every source added but that would probably slow stuff down considerably. Some people have FTP servers they add which probably change quite often with the content, and it might not be very well tagged and the like, Usually (me atleast) would want to keep these away from the library so it's better to have it off per default IMHO.

When we talk about the video library it's more a fault of the container (avi) as they have no tags like music have, that way XBMC can't really know what the file is. The roundway of doing this is to parse the folder/file name which is based on how good you name your files. If you name them good the library will parse and choose the movies great IMO but if you don't name them good how can we know which movies you have. It's like speaking a foreign language to a person, it needs to gues which may or may not be the correct thing. When someone create a tagsystem for video containers I'm sure XBMC will support it (given there's ample of documentation or it's opensourced). Then the video library will be much much simpler.

I know that there is room for improvement I'm not denying that but if you think of what information XBMC have to base the video library on It does one hell of a job.

If you consider iTunes movies it will download a information with the file and if XBMC had that kind of control of the movies we could surely keep the library tidy and clean simple.

All I'm saying don't say: "It doesn't work" or "it's not simple enough" please give concrete example's and even suggestions on how to solve it. Then If the idea is good i'm sure it will spurr an interest in someone

Sincerely Topfs2

[platanito21]

I'm actually not talking about how xbmc gets its info for movies/music etc... I love that xbmc has set up ways to get info for your movies automatically and such (as well as being able to enter it manually). What I'm talking about is the way its been implemented. Perhaps its the "bring up context menu, set content, enable imdb, etc....." It just seems like a few too many steps. I haven't played around with it a lot yet (waiting for my new tv and hard drives before I start officially setting up my htpc) but it just seems like its not ideal yet (for a mac user). All the features are there, I think its just the way its broken down or the menu structure or something. I can't quite put my finger on it yet. I am by no means a programmer (i'm a graphic designer and a web designer) but I do know when GUI's are ideal and when they are not and it just seems like its somewhere in the middle right now (probably closer to the "ideal" side of things).

I understand where you guys (the xbmc programmers) are coming from. Just saying "its not right yet" doesn't really help. I didn't mean to use this topic as a forum for addressing what needs to be done. I simply just meant to state that I think this is a subject that the mac community and the xbmc for os x programmers should talk about and discuss and see if there is a way to make it more suitable for Mac users.

[spiff]

the library needs to know

1) WHAT your files are
2) WHERE your files are at
3) WHERE to fetch info about those files from

you do that by setting the CONTENT (i.e. what you files are) of the SOURCE, while at the same time setting WHERE to fetch the information from.

you are telling it EXACTLY what it needs to know (and no more) as far as i can see. i dont see why any of those improvements you have in mind needs to be mac specific.

this isnt meant to sound offensive (nor am i offended) even though i use some large letters . but the fact of the matter is yes, it's an ui designed by a programmer because nobody else have stepped up and told me where i went wrong. i'm all ears (as long as your solution isn't a wizard, i loath wizards).

[Gamester17]

All I'm saying don't say: "It doesn't work" or "it's not simple enough" please give concrete example's and even suggestions on how to solve it. Then If the idea is good i'm sure it will spurr an interest in someone

Well spoken, only constructive criticism will be listen to, otherwise I think you find that juat criticism on its own will be ignored.

This is a must read for anyone wanting or asking for something in the open source community:
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

Team-XBMC and the XBMC community have also explained in our FAQ how we prefer to see feature/function requests being made:
* Where can I suggest/request a new feature or function to be implemented into XBMC?
...and why you might not get the response that you wanted right away:
* When will this and that feature or function be supported by XBMC?

[Jeroen]

I really don't see the arguments for xbmc not being easy enough yet. You just need to follow just a couple of simple steps and you're done.
I am all for simple and intuitive, but dumbing down to the point where monkeys should be able to use it is an entirely different matter. I strongly believe in software that is designed to have smart defaults, and xbmc does a fine job at it imo.

[platanito21]

Thank you guys for completely missing my point.

and I TRULY mean no disrespect here because I really appreciate all your hard work (and I have no interest in bickering on a forum) but are you guys on the OS X team? If not then my posts aren't really intended for you. You guys have clearly set up XBMC to be the way you think works best for you and your users and I doubt anything I say will change your opinions on that so (as I stated before) I think this is a discussion that needs to take place with/for the mac community at a later date (so that people can bring concrete suggestions to the table). My sole purpose for even bringing this up is to stir up some creativity to see if there is another way to implement a UI for setting up videos, music, etc.... that is a little more familiar for OS X users. THATS IT.

I understand that there is a history to XBMC and that people have had discussions that have led to xbmc being the way it is and I understand that people want to defend those decisions (as is your right) but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The fact that I've had to explain myself like 3 times already leads me to believe that I'm wasting my time with you guys. I won't say some of the other things I want to say because I'm fairly certain that it will just add fuel to the xbmc vs. osxbmc fire so I'll leave it at that.

[topfs2]

I reread your post and I might have missed the point abit and strayed on how the information fetching is done, and were it's limiting.

And I am very interested in seeing suggestions, Personally I want XBMC to be simple and I see no reason that should be mac specific THat's why I posted to spurr onwards on the discussion, just wanted to bring the limits to the table

The manifesto of XBMC is to be user friendly but ofc very capable. So if anyone have suggestions for this I see no reason why it wouldn't be thought of and maybe even adopted, may it be xbox, linux, osx or win32.

[spiff]

all i asked for was for you to give us your views on it, as well as explain why i built the ui i built. poo on me.

[bmfrosty]

@platanito21

XBMC is first and foremost home theater software. It's designed (imo correctly) to be used with a remote control - originally one with many buttons - or failing that a joystick. I can see how the idea of using a mouse and keyboard for configuration could be desirable - and faster, but XBMC is not really designed for the desktop. Maybe some day someone will decide to write a GUI front end for XBMC configuration, but I don't think that any of the current developers have any interest in it.

[platanito21]

The reason I'm approaching this as a mac specific thing is because I think mac users have grown accustomed to having very clean and simplified user interfaces. I've been using the mac os and mac software for about 15 years and over all other things I'd say that the ui is the single biggest difference (both aesthetically and philosophically) between macs and pcs. So my discussion isn't about making a "better way to do it" but rather a "more mac friendly" way of doing things. Whether the solution is better for ALL users is something that can be discussed afterwards. What I love about Apple (I don't want to get into a Mac vs PC discussion because they both have their advantages) is that you can tell that the user experience is the #1 objective in the way they design their software. There are people that think their software doesn't have enough customizable settings (usually windows fanboy arguements) but I'd say that their software is perfect for about 95% of users right out of the box. That is where I think the OS X version of xbmc should be heading (which I believe it is). I don't think removing features from xbmc is the way to go here at all though. I think its just a matter of how these features are presented to the user (perhaps thats how I should have explained it in my other posts). I thought about a setup wizard for about 0.3 seconds but remembered that I hate wizards (I believe they are called assistants in OS X). Lookin at you Spiff ;-) Maybe the solution is to move more of the settings to the "Settings" section. Maybe its to hide some options until you enable the "advanced" setting. Maybe its to just re-organize where some of the menus are, or maybe its to better group certain features together. Who knows. One of the advantages that Frontrow has is that it just taps into iTunes & iPhoto for everything it needs so it doesn't require the user to set anything up. But Frontrow is essentially just a frontend for all the iLife apps instead of being a TRUE media center program like xbmc

[platanito21]

@bmfrosty

I actually have no interest in xbmc becoming more of a desktop software and I hate having to use a mouse or keyboard for my htpc so we're in the same boat

[Gamester17]

Team-XBMC will be continuing the XBMC for Mac development as the official XBMC version. You should start seeing the results shortly when the re-organization is complete, be patient and give us a few weeks, we are not giving up on you OS X fanboys just yet.


Two things that have to be noted though:

1. XBMC is now a cross-platform software and Team-XBMC aim to keep it that way, XBMC should always look and feel the same no matter on which underlying operating-system you are running it on, (sure skins/themes can make XBMC look differently but any skin/theme will look exactly the same on all platforms). If one design or layout improvement is brought to XBMC on one of the platforms then that same improvement will be ported to all XBMC platforms.

2. The XBMC manifesto - The vision of Team-XBMC

PS! For manageability, please understand and respect that all and any new feature/function suggestion needs to be submitted individually so that we can discussed that single unique feature/function by itself (no offence meant, but if you post all type of different ideas in a single topic-thread then most those ideas will simply be forgotten and practically lost forever), see: Where can I suggest/request a new feature or function to be implemented into XBMC?

PPS! Please refrain from making this into a us verses them or Windows verses OS X discussion, the next such comment and I will be forced to lock this topic-thread.

[davilla]

Here's some feedback from a long time MythTV user.

My initial exposure with XBMC was XBMC for OSX. It was quick to try it out and was the very first "Media Center" that I could actually run with the Apple IR remote. Very nice, so since I'm an Linux on AppleTV advocate, I installed the LiveUSB flavor on a USB flash and tried it on the AppleTV. Guess what, same interface that worked quite well with the six button Apple IR remote. Sure an MS mce remote had even better functionality but this was by far more easer to use than MythTV which is very keyboard centric.

The only problem (on both OSX and Linux) I had was setting up a media share as this was confusing at first. It was only when I realized that I needed to make sure the share was selected (chosen) before exiting, then everything made sense. It would naturally have "clicked" if the "ok" was disabled until I had a condition that would lead to a proper share selection. This type of visual GUI feedback is what Apple users expect and Linux/Windows users have not experenced. And this simple yet subtle visual feedback works in all platforms not just OSX and is not difficult to implement. The result is a much better GUI interface that enhances all platforms with proper GUI behavior.

There is absolutely no reason to say the OSX provides a better user experience. It's all in how the GUI is programmed with respect to hints as to how the user is expected to respond.

We (my company) have a vertical commercial application that is cross-platform (Windows and MacOS) and we do this for both sides. The result is an easy to use GUI that is identical on both platforms and requires much less technical support.

Which platform do I prefer -- no preference as now it just depends on what hardware do I want to run it under. XBMC the same on both and that's a very big plus.

[jmarshall]

It seems we're all on the same page here

platanito21: Please have a think about the interface and try and come up with specific points you think could/should be done better. I agree that the way the video library source setup is done isn't ideal, and we're all willing to change it to be better, so any and all suggestions will be considered.

The Mac/not Mac thing is of no consequence - a better UI is a better UI, full stop.

Cheers,
Jonathan