[EMK0]

The reason we can make all these nice skins is because xbmc skin engine is very flexible look at aeon. There is no way to make the skinning for idiots and have all this. And what are you talking about abusing power? if you don't like aeon just don't use it no one is forcing you.

[hikaricore]

but this is exactly what the guy is saying, the all skining capabilities of xbmc is crap, don't believe me? well look at aeon skin and how it has abused the power that xbmc gave him, abuse? raped, molested.

the all design should have been entirely different, is there any reason why xbmc skining not using inheritance FFS why do we need to recreate each and every widget(and please i'm not talking about includes), xbmc should have given more formality and unified specs to the widgets and an explicit directive way when ever u want to use your own custom widget that way u could maintain your modes with no big fuss.

at the time being, for one to create a skin u'll need to have MIT diploma or a father that works as a NASA engineer, that for me is a DESIGN BUG, and lets face it, when it comes to functionality the only skin that can deliver the needs of a true media centre is pm.hd3 and guess what the skin had been written by xbmc developer.

uhhhh could you be any more of a troll?

[EMK0]

i was pissed about his post. these guys here spent many years developing this awesome software and he comes in here acting like he could do a better job and calling there hard work crap.

[AnalogKid]

but this is exactly what the guy is saying, the all skining capabilities of xbmc is crap, don't believe me? well look at aeon skin and how it has abused the power that xbmc gave him, abuse? raped, molested.

the all design should have been entirely different, is there any reason why xbmc skining not using inheritance FFS why do we need to recreate each and every widget(and please i'm not talking about includes), xbmc should have given more formality and unified specs to the widgets and an explicit directive way when ever u want to use your own custom widget that way u could maintain your modes with no big fuss.

at the time being, for one to create a skin u'll need to have MIT diploma or a father that works as a NASA engineer, that for me is a DESIGN BUG, and lets face it, when it comes to functionality the only skin that can deliver the needs of a true media centre is pm.hd3 and guess what the skin had been written by xbmc developer.

SOME of what you say has some validity... the skinning of XBMC is VERY flexible, but not the easiest in the world to develop for... I'm about to start doing some skinning myself, and it's very hard to find resources and guidance starting from scratch.... however:

- It clearly is good enough to get some very impressive results
- You could always help by offering your design expertise and code to the community
- You could consider ways to express criticism in a manner that is seen as constructive and not destructive

I can point to 100 things in XBMC that suck. I can do the same with a Ferrari car. It doesn't mean it's a bad product... it means it's a realistic one. Compromises are made... people develop this for free, across multiple platforms, and whilst there ARE some grumpy developers, the vast majority will give you the time of day, IF you take a little time to be polite, have some sound reasoning in your arguments and make an effort in contributing 'something' to the community... even if it's just helping others overcome issues.

Inheritance (implied Object Orientation) is no guarantee of better code you know. It can in many cases lead to bloated and inefficient code. I support Object Orientation, but it's just a programming paradigm... an artificial construct designed to help stupid humans (all of us) think more easily.

I reiterate, some of what you say is entirely true, and most of the XBMC Team (I think) would agree in principle... they aren't stupid. What they are however, is pressed for time, more focused on other matters and finally masters of their own destiny!...

Come back with a better version of the criticisms and some possible ways to improve it.... you'll be welcomed with open arms!

[Cranial]

^ Vote for post of month. Sound reply, people can learn from your approach. Thank you.

[motyR]

i've read and reread my post and then decided to reread it once again and sorry have'nt found any thing that might be ofending.

@EMK0: "if you don't like aeon just don't use it no one is forcing you. "
i've never claimed no one is forcing me, i've just spoke my mind, am i still entitled to so so ??

@hikaricore: "uhhhh could you be any more of a troll? ".
"uhhhh could you be any more of a FANBOY? "
beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

@AnalogKid:
"- It clearly is good enough to get some very impressive results"
OK, but in terms of functionality, how manny of them are fully usable? how many variants of skins are u using, i guess no more then one or two, how come?? xbmc have been here for ages and only 2 usable skins to choose from?
"- You could always help by offering your design expertise and code to the community"
yea i could, but u know what i dont have enough free time to do that, but instead i've decided to contribute money to the projects, both xbmc and aeon. have all those beauty souls that describe me as a troll done that??

any how it's getting too long and i'll stop here but i'm goanna leave u with few qustion? maybe u can en-light me, any reason not to have a default fall-back multi language font for xbmc? why is that in aeon when i press "show debug info" my xbmc goes banana, if djh_ haven't got the time to implement it why cant he inherit it from pm.hd3 for example? why is it that widgets arent separated from their geometry(u want flexibility? this will give u way more then u can imagine)?

good day

[Gamester17]

That's it, motyR have now been banned for flaming and trolling. Move along, nothing to see here...

Now please get back to the real and serious discussion, or we will be forced to lock this thread!

Everyone, for future reference, think about How To Ask Questions The Smart Way before posting:
http://catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

There is a HUGE difference between critique and constructive criticism
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-construc...ticism.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic
...best is normally just to skip the critique and only give constructive suggestions!

[zag]

Can't a mod directory simply override anything in the skin directory? I'm guessing some kind of versioning would be needed to see if a mod was compatible with a theme release.

It becomes a lot easier once a theme is stable and not changed so much.

[jmarshall]

See my post earlier in this thread. A separate folder doesn't solve the issue. The issue is that as the skin changes, the mods either stop working permanently (as things they patch are no longer applicable) or need modification, or might work.

Once the skin stops changing, then the mods tend to merge into a new skin anyway.

If modders simply use the tools (github in particular) that they have available, it would make things much easier for users - just grab whatever patch set you want and git takes care of it for you.

Cheers,
Jonathan

[AnalogKid]

The truth is...

most of the modders are trying to decorate a house whilst it's still being built.
they do some great work, but as soon as a nice skin is released, 20 modders 'tweak' it... all in parallel, and no coordination.

Rearrange this well known phrase:

"Themselves Only Blame Have They To"


Some very very smart thinking in terms of 'includes' could help... but this presupposes the skinner can second guess the likely mods...and offers a very crude 'Insert your version here' type framework. Fine for a few animation transitions, thumbnail sizes etc, but past that... it's messy, as I am learning myself in my first skinning venture!

[AnalogKid]

Hummm... I don't know quite enough (yet) about this... but I think it's feasible...


What if DJH kept his traditional 'Showcase, List and Multiplex' views... but then had a 4th option which was "Extra Views" When selecting extra views, the user could be given a list of additional (modded views) ?

This would probably mean that each modder 'add' to the skin file for the list (to add their own custom view).

Then instead of 'modding' DJH's original source... they copied it. I admit this is duplication, but it would at least allow users to keep all the different sexy mods.

Is it feasible?


(Yes I know that the user could just replicated the entire AEON folder and keep multiple versions, but this would result in different global settings for each copy of Aeon, which isn't ideal).

Am I barking mad, or could it work?

[paul]

Hummm... I don't know quite enough (yet) about this... but I think it's feasible...


What if DJH kept his traditional 'Showcase, List and Multiplex' views... but then had a 4th option which was "Extra Views" When selecting extra views, the user could be given a list of additional (modded views) ?

This would probably mean that each modder 'add' to the skin file for the list (to add their own custom view).

Then instead of 'modding' DJH's original source... they copied it. I admit this is duplication, but it would at least allow users to keep all the different sexy mods.

Is it feasible?


(Yes I know that the user could just replicated the entire AEON folder and keep multiple versions, but this would result in different global settings for each copy of Aeon, which isn't ideal).

Am I barking mad, or could it work?

No your not barking mad at least if you are then i must be as i think the same.
It must be possible to do this but it's all down to either djh to make it possible or some other talented coder takeing up the challenge it would be great if this was possible as then you should not be able to screw up the rest of your skin when a new mod does not work the way it should. or maybe i am barking mad

[AnalogKid]

No your not barking mad at least if you are then i must be as i think the same.
It must be possible to do this but it's all down to either djh to make it possible or some other talented coder takeing up the challenge it would be great if this was possible as then you should not be able to screw up the rest of your skin when a new mod does not work the way it should. or maybe i am barking mad

So DJH would just have to make a 'plug your extra views here' type list. Then he can walk away and continue doing his own thing!

As long as every 'mod' stuck to it's own namespace (for the filenames) thenit should work I think. However, a lot of the mods aren't done by skilled skinners, they are just a view values hacked around with and objects moved around etc. They'd have to do a little bit more work to conform to this idea... but still, I think it has legs.... maybe!

[z][ggy]

I think it would or should i say sounds like a great idea (i'll watch this space with baited breathe)

[Hitcher]

I actually had a go at the same thing a week or so ago. I had the view change button cycle through the various layouts instead of bringing up the Aeon's 'Up, Down, Left, Right' so I could add my own but I gave up on it.
Now I just make my mods optional extras for the standard views.