Poll: What platform do you run XBMC on?
This poll is closed.
Xbox 53.18% 427 53.18%
Linux 17.56% 141 17.56%
OSX (ATV) 4.98% 40 4.98%
Windows 24.28% 195 24.28%
Total 803 votes 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

Do you think that Team-XBMC should keep developing XBMC for the Xbox?

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digitalhigh Offline
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Question  Do you think that Team-XBMC should keep developing XBMC for the Xbox?
Post: #1
I'm starting this thread because I've seen a lot of discussion crop up lately involving HTPC vs. Xbox, "ending Xbox support for XBMC", and other offtopic chats about the subject.

So I figure...let's have a free-for-all right here. HTPC people...let's hear it. Xbox fans...sound off.

Personally, I think that there is still a massive following with the original Xbox crowd here. I would guess that it's actually the largest fanbase for XBMC.

So, am I wrong? Should the Xbox be put on the back shelf? Or should it be supported until the very bitter end?
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Bob___ Offline
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Post: #2
It is clear that the largest group of users own an xbox and want that e.g. the skin development still goes on.

But if the development comes to the point when it is necessary to make compromise with legacy hardware (e.g the skin development -> greater resolution & more memory usage) like it is time to make a cut.

If i were one of the developers and i have the choice between Xbox 1 and HTPC (Linux, Windows, Mac) i would go for the new hardware and the new potentiality that this new hardware offers.

After so many years the limitations of the Xbox 1 are bigger and bigger and nowadays we have the HD-age which the Xbox is not capable for. If we want still full legacy support i wonder when the first users are crying for a XBMC version for the C64 ;-)
(This post was last modified: 2008-10-09 07:57 by Bob___.)
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Freddo Offline
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Post: #3
I love the xbox, and I've been using XBMC since it was called yAMP, I think as long as it doesn't compromise other platforms, and aslong as there are still xboxs in the field, it makes sense to continue supporting it. For standard definition content theres very little competition at that price point and form factor. I fully believe XBMC's xbox only roots are what has made it such a lean mean HTPC killing machine, given limited hardware the developers were forced to polish and polish and polish some more without the kind of feature creep that other media centers suffer.

As for skins, i can understand why some skin developers might want to "drop" the xbox as a platform, either because they don't have one to test themselves, or because it doesn't allow them to create what they want due to memory requirements etc. Let's not forget though as long as skinners make their textures available unprotected it's probably always going to be possible for someone else to optimize the skin for use on xbox. Perhaps further optimization of the GUI rendering could make this less of an issue in the future too. ( I don't know but the team has worked miracles before so I wouldn't put it past them ).

Another cool spin-off of continued xbox support is that low-power subnotebooks and SFF machines like the Asus EEe Box, or Via's teeny tiny motherboards shouldn't struggle too much to run XBMC, and these are great platforms for SD only playback in playrooms and bedrooms, low cost, low power usage etc.
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digitalhigh Offline
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Post: #4
I agree...as a developer, the goal is most often to reach the fullest potential that a software can support.

But a developer also needs to consider the largest demographic for the medium they're creating for. And in this case, the largest demographic is Xbox users. It would, IMHO, only make sense to design a core around what the people want.

So, in the example of Aeon Stark...how difficult would it actually be to set a flag for certain features or graphics that would be deemed Xbox compatible, or xbox noncompatible? Aeon already has a setting to "enable xbox performance mode". Why not work around that? Or hell...make the 1080p res set non-xbox, and the 720p set Xbox compatible...
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icekiller Offline
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Post: #5
i think both need to be supported...
but thats the nice thing about XBMC.. it has its own total skin engine.. which has a nice effect that your skin can be as heavy... or as light as you want it to be..

the standard code base needs to be updated as it is..
plugins should work for both "pc" and xbox...

while i'm not against more advanced feature (aka suspend etc) that are only ment for PC..

as long as the normal fixes and 'just basic nice features' are also added to the xbox version its all good with me.. i have... 4 xboxes and 1HTPC..

I'm still pretty content with Xvid and so are my parents and brother..
its not like we have a 104" plasma etc we have normal 82cm lcd and even a normal CRT tv..
so no real need for a real htpc @ each tv..

also the cost for XBMC @ xbox is cheap as hell.. try to build an entire 'htpc' for 50euro.. (thats the price i paid for each xbox except my first one that one was 80euro, each xbox with dvd remote!).

a normal htpc is around 350euro.. so.. 7,5 times more expensive..
(cpu: 110euro, mb: 50a55euro, memory: 35euro, case: 150euro.. remote 30euro+usb receiver: 15euro.., usb stick 20euro..) it adds up.. ofcourse its more flexible.. but I think as long as they can keep going forward and be able to also keep the xbmc for xbox 'ok' i say why not?
in like 5 years when most HTPC's will be death replaced or whateveR.. i'm pretty sure that my 4 xbox's will still work as happily as ever..
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rudeboyx Offline
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Post: #6
lets face it the majority of people using XBMC on htpc only came across the software because they were originaly using it for xbox and more than likley are still using it as a second, third or even forth media streamer

XBMC IS XBOX


PEACE
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Gamester17 Offline
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Post: #7
Checking the topic summery of this thread from "Taking the "X"out of XBMC " to "Do you think that Team-XBMC should keep developing XBMC for the Xbox? " as XBMC does no longer stand for XBox Media Center. XBMC is now only a semi-recursive acronym for XBMC Media Center.

Here is something related to bring into the discussion:
http://xbmc.org/about/vision/
Quote:Team-XBMC members should always strive to... Apply the Law of Diminishing Return - The majority of the effort should be invested in implementing features which have the most benefit and widest general usage by the community.

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.
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althekiller Offline
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Post: #8
Things that need to be considered...

1. Scarcity. MS no longer makes the Xbox, they are becoming difficult to find.
2. Life Span. It is becoming apparent that the average xbox is reaching end of life. Many people I know are seeing failures and anomalies associated with impending hardware failure. This perpetuates point 1.
3. Usefulness. The age of HD is upon us, and we all know that the xbox just isn't going to cut it much longer.
4. Interested Developers. It is hard to remain interested in a platform when your application is being stonewalled by weak hardware disallowing addition of useful features.
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digitalhigh Offline
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Post: #9
Quote:Team-XBMC members should always strive to... Apply the Law of Diminishing Return - The majority of the effort should be invested in implementing features which have the most benefit and widest general usage by the community.

I guess that this would point back to the question...who is the largest demographic of users? Who is using this the most widely?

Actually, mods...any chance this could be made into a poll? What hardware do you run XBMC on?
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althekiller Offline
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Post: #10
I created the poll but it's not exactly presented the way I'd like. For instance, I currently USE only Xbox, but develop the SDL ports.
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matt_cyr Offline
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Post: #11
althekiller Wrote:2. Life Span. It is becoming apparent that the average xbox is reaching end of life. Many people I know are seeing failures and anomalies associated with impending hardware failure. This perpetuates point 1.

I agree whole heartedly here. My XBOX just crapped out on me the other day after many years of good use. But it's just not feasible to get a new one/fix this one. I started running xbmc for windows and have had great success with it. No reason to go back to the xbox platform now.

I think it's great to keep making xbmc compatible with the xbox but if it starts interfering with newer features and technologies then I think the time to pass on xbox support will have arrived.
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digitalhigh Offline
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Post: #12
althekiller Wrote:Things that need to be considered...

1. Scarcity. MS no longer makes the Xbox, they are becoming difficult to find.
2. Life Span. It is becoming apparent that the average xbox is reaching end of life. Many people I know are seeing failures and anomalies associated with impending hardware failure. This perpetuates point 1.
3. Usefulness. The age of HD is upon us, and we all know that the xbox just isn't going to cut it much longer.
4. Interested Developers. It is hard to remain interested in a platform when your application is being stonewalled by weak hardware disallowing addition of useful features.

1. I can go into a gamestop in one of four different locations (20 mins from my house, max) and find at least four or five refurbished xbox1's for under $100US.

2. The biggest problem hardware failure problem would most likely be with the hard drive or DVD ROM...both of which are easily replaceable. And again...I can replace the entire unit for less than $100.

3. The age of HD is upon us primarily because it's been forced by various companies trying to get their hardware out and popular first. If you look at the HD space of your average PC, it would seem that people aren't entirely ready for the HD era yet. It's just available.

4. True...the Xbox's hardware is a limiting factor. But how freaking much does a mediacenter application need to do? For a general, day-to-day device, it is (IMHO) unsurpassed by anything else on the market. It's because of my Xbox that I don't own a CD or DVD player. If you want to call it "stonewalling", I guess it is somewhat applicable.

Personally, I believe that the Xbox's lifespan is far from over. As long as there are resellers, I'll have at least one working xbox playing my movies for me.
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althekiller Offline
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Post: #13
digitalhigh Wrote:1. I can go into a gamestop in one of four different locations (20 mins from my house, max) and find at least four or five refurbished xbox1's for under $100US.

4 or 5 sounds pretty scarce to me.

Quote: 2. The biggest problem hardware failure problem would most likely be with the hard drive or DVD ROM...both of which are easily replaceable. And again...I can replace the entire unit for less than $100.

Actually I've seen mostly MCPX (North bridge) and GPU failures. I actually have one where the casing exploded off an IC.

Quote:3. The age of HD is upon us primarily because it's been forced by various companies trying to get their hardware out and popular first. If you look at the HD space of your average PC, it would seem that people aren't entirely ready for the HD era yet. It's just available.

You can't stop the corporate machine or the idiot consumer drones it controls Tongue

Quote:4. True...the Xbox's hardware is a limiting factor. But how freaking much does a mediacenter application need to do? For a general, day-to-day device, it is (IMHO) unsurpassed by anything else on the market. It's because of my Xbox that I don't own a CD or DVD player. If you want to call it "stonewalling", I guess it is somewhat applicable.

If XBMC already does the things you want it on Xbox, what's the point of this thread? You said you want continued development. What's to develop?
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digitalhigh Offline
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Post: #14
althekiller Wrote:4 or 5 sounds pretty scarce to me.

I live in Milwaukee. Big city. Big Grin

Quote:Actually I've seen mostly MCPX (North bridge) and GPU failures. I actually have one where the casing exploded off an IC.

Never seen it myself. Always drive failures. IDK...still, very cheap to replace.

Quote:You can't stop the corporate machine or the idiot consumer drones it controls Tongue

No, but the developer has a choice to do what the corporation wants, or what the people want. And I think that the whole reason XBMC came about was because of what people wanted...

Quote:If XBMC already does the things you want it on Xbox, what's the point of this thread? You said you want continued development. What's to develop?

Maybe you guys can find a better way to play x264 files w/o lag. A smarter library. Updated scraper support. Just the tiny little polishing and refinement that XBMC is constantly undergoing. Just because I don't have any particular feature requests doesn't mean that others don't. Lyrics toys. Fanart for music. Make it support more external drives.

The point of this thread was to say "please don't give up on the xbox.", and let others say the same thing. Blush
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A Milton Offline
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Post: #15
I think XBMC always should target at least one older/slower platform such as the Xbox (or the Apple TV) to make sure that even hardware that is not top of the line can run it smoothly.
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