[rernst]

That's a beautiful case. I'm surprised since last time I checked, the HTPC cases from silverstone were not very appealing. Nice work, thanks for sharing.

My only issue is... what happens if and when Apple adds blu-ray to the Mac Mini? Suppose that Apple prices such machine at $799. That machine would be capable to play anything you trow at it, would have smallest footprint, and OSX's sleep function means that it's instant on. Wireless N. Completely silent. How would a custom HTPC compete with this? It's tough competition.

Personally a killer HTPC should have an amazing PVR system, equal or better than Tivo. OR should be a server/HTPC combo and should be able to host 5 or 6 drives. Preferably all inside the case, no external devices, and as elegant as possible. That would beat the Mac Mini hands down.

I find that hard to believe that Apple will sell you a 1TB box with Bluray support for $799,-. It can't even play standard h.264. There is very little open source software for it. What sort of remote would it offer? Apple is known to make it hard for third party products to enhance the hardware. This is what they make their money with, essentially radically overpricing it (yes, they make it look pretty but so can I).

A rock bottom Bluray is $120,- as far as I can tell, a 1TB drive is $100,- and Apple surcharges 100%.

You can hook up as many USB drives to a box as you want - I am not sure why you would want to have that in a huge case. I look at it like that: I hook up one or two drives on top of what's inside. In six months they come out with a 2 or 2.5 TB drive and I stick that one in.

I agree with your PVR suggestion but right now I only see the HDPC-20 on the horizon for me. Who knows more about this gadget? From what I see it is Vista proprietary and for good reason: They will stick tons of DRM on it to make sure you cannot record any content. After all, TiVo shut the opensourcce community out after it got them to jumpstart them. The MPAA must be really nervous about DirecTV, in particular since Amazon and Netflix hooked up with them. Does this mean you get get DRM-free Amazon and Netflix Watch Now content? I doubt it.

There will be no open PVR for satellite content and it certainly isn't the comunity's fault.

[migueld]

You can hook up as many USB drives to a box as you want - I am not sure why you would want to have that in a huge case. I look at it like that: I hook up one or two drives on top of what's inside. In six months they come out with a 2 or 2.5 TB drive and I stick that one in.

This is probably a personal preference, but I'd hate having 3-5+ external drives alongside a mac mini. That means 3-5 bulky AC adapters, the drives themselves cluttering a table or something; aesthetically it's just not elegant. A single unit is far more elegant IMHO. Besides, one saves money since internal drives are cheaper.

I find that hard to believe that Apple will sell you a 1TB box with Bluray support for $799,-. It can't even play standard h.264. There is very little open source software for it. What sort of remote would it offer? Apple is known to make it hard for third party products to enhance the hardware. This is what they make their money with, essentially radically overpricing it (yes, they make it look pretty but so can I).

A rock bottom Bluray is $120,- as far as I can tell, a 1TB drive is $100,- and Apple surcharges 100%.

Yes the mini wouldn't match the same HDD spec as the suggested HTPC, but like you suggested, one can add external drives. It'll be a bit more expensive, but not a deal breaker IMO. I guess it depends on what you want to compromise. You have a valid point there. Regarding the remote most people use apple's remote which comes with the machine. If you don't like that, there are other options, some examples: ps3, harmony, dinovo etc.

Regarding h.264, what do you mean? AFAIK the 1.8 ghz model plays h.264 720 easily, and the 2.0 ghz model handles h.264 1080 fine... I'm assuming the specs will be better on the next revision, so there shouldn't be any h.264 issues.

[Geeba]

and the 2.0 ghz model handles h.264 1080 fine... I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on that.... theres heaps of hardware threads all saying you need around about the 3.0Ghz mark to run native 1080 HD

[rernst]

and the 2.0 ghz model handles h.264 1080 fine... I wouldn't bet my bottom dollar on that.... theres heaps of hardware threads all saying you need around about the 3.0Ghz mark to run native 1080 HD

I just tested. My 4050e AMD with an 8600 on the motherboard plays 1080p without so much as a hitch. It's a myth that these processors are underpowered. I would go so far as to say that they are overpowered given a decent graphics card. Off course, the weakest link in the chain determines the results but the processor definitely isn't.

Look at the initial specs I posted which allows you to build a machine for roughly 500 bucks in a beautiful case. Trust me, it plays full 1080 including AC3 sound (I don't have a DTS receiver and this motherboard offers no such option - I do not know of any as a matter of fact).

Don't be fooled into buying an Intel CPU.

[harryzimm]

Try playing some of the planet earth 1080p samples or a high bitrate movie that has a resolution over 1920x800 without black bars and tell me that cpu can handle it. Sure it can play some 1080p but you said you built the ultimate, surely that means it can play all 1080p. I had my amd x2 5600 clocked at 3.4 ghz with a 8400 gs in a shuttle xpc and still was dropping frames on planet earth and some movies. Recently i upgraded to a gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H with onboard nvidia 7100 through hdmi and a intel E8400. Not a single dropped frame on any content including the killa sample. I think you need to do some more research before making claims of 1080p playback on that hardware.

By the way what platform are you testing on?

[rernst]

Try playing some of the planet earth 1080p samples or a high bitrate movie that has a resolution over 1920x800 without black bars and tell me that cpu can handle it. Sure it can play some 1080p but you said you built the ultimate, surely that means it can play all 1080p. I had my amd x2 5600 clocked at 3.4 ghz with a 8400 gs in a shuttle xpc and still was dropping frames on planet earth and some movies. Recently i upgraded to a gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H with onboard nvidia 7100 through hdmi and a intel E8400. Not a single dropped frame on any content including the killa sample. I think you need to do some more research before making claims of 1080p playback on that hardware.

By the way what platform are you testing on?

I am testing under Windows. I am fairly certain that the graphics drivers for Windows are better optimized than the Linux ones, after all, Linux is not really a market for Nvidia. Did you use PCI express x16? Shuttle is generally considered a budget platform, but that is arguable. The Asus motherboard I am using has Hypertransport v 3, that will also make a difference. Also note that this is an onboard 8600 card with shared memory, i.e. there are no PCI bus problems, or so I presume. All of that taken together would explain the difference.

Did you use DDR 800?

Again, the reason for me was to have a *cool* (as in temperature) machine.

I will check with a full rez. HD title.

[avickery]

Try playing some of the planet earth 1080p samples or a high bitrate movie that has a resolution over 1920x800 without black bars and tell me that cpu can handle it. Sure it can play some 1080p but you said you built the ultimate, surely that means it can play all 1080p. I had my amd x2 5600 clocked at 3.4 ghz with a 8400 gs in a shuttle xpc and still was dropping frames on planet earth and some movies. Recently i upgraded to a gigabyte GA-73PVM-S2H with onboard nvidia 7100 through hdmi and a intel E8400. Not a single dropped frame on any content including the killa sample. I think you need to do some more research before making claims of 1080p playback on that hardware.

By the way what platform are you testing on?

Hate my first post to be contesting someone else's point, but this is most likely due totally to the fact that you're using Linux. Running my hardware configuration (6000+, Gigabyte 790G motherboard, IGP clocked to 800Mhz, *NO DISCRETE VIDEO CARD*, 2 gigs DDR2-800, WD Caviar) under XP/Vista 32-bit has absolutely no trouble decoding full 1080P. Very very very little stutter.
I was planning on using Linux, but honestly, the state of VGA drivers for Linux is abysmal.

[avickery]

Also, the "e" series of CPU's from AMD have proven themselves very capable.
There's no reason that a couple hundred Mhz should have a big effect on video decode. Modern GPU's (I.E. the RV7 series ATi Radeon 3300 powering my 790G mobo) have the UVD, which take the brunt of work for hardware decode (now encode too!) off the CPU. Proper firmware and OS drivers are needed to take advantage of that functionality, though.

Hopefully with AMD's recent attitude towards the FOSS community, and further revisions of their drivers, we'll see improvements for Linux. But as it stands, running my system in Linux would be extra work for less overall performance.

[rernst]

Also, the "e" series of CPU's from AMD have proven themselves very capable.
There's no reason that a couple hundred Mhz should have a big effect on video decode. Modern GPU's (I.E. the RV7 series ATi Radeon 3300 powering my 790G mobo) have the UVD, which take the brunt of work for hardware decode (now encode too!) off the CPU. Proper firmware and OS drivers are needed to take advantage of that functionality, though.

Hopefully with AMD's recent attitude towards the FOSS community, and further revisions of their drivers, we'll see improvements for Linux. But as it stands, running my system in Linux would be extra work for less overall performance.

Let me add to that that I tested with Gothika which is full 1080p, no black bars and it plays back flawlessly. Rule of thumb is that you need 2 Ghz to do 1080p. I am running XP. Sorry it doesn't work right for you but indeed Linux drivers are simply not as optimized. I am all for the open source community but the fact of life is that Linux simply does not have as good of hardware support as Windows. Linux won't even run on my box due to miserable lack of support.

[avickery]

Amen!

[rwparris2]

Modern GPU's (I.E. the RV7 series ATi Radeon 3300 powering my 790G mobo) have the UVD, which take the brunt of work for hardware decode (now encode too!) off the CPU. Proper firmware and OS drivers are needed to take advantage of that functionality, though.

XBMC doesn't support this regardless of platform and or drivers.

[rernst]

XBMC doesn't support this regardless of platform and or drivers.

There is a lot of hardware driver support (such as the AMD CPU driver support) that needs no cooperation with the playback mechanism. Hypertransport doesn't need, either. I understand Purevideo HD doesn't either, but I may be corrected. All these things happen under the covers, no need for XBMC to be aware of.

[avickery]

Correct. The application, if I am properly informed, makes use of the OS and existing drivers/graphics systems. Hence, it should be independent of, and doesn't need to be aware of that functionality.

Whenever I get home from work and clients after that, I'll try to post some benchmarks if anyone is interested. Otherwise, you can check out the OCWorkbench benchmarks on the mobo,as I'm using a mostly identical setup.

Might not be tonight, as I live on the southern shore of Lake Erie. Don't know if you all watch CNN, but we got over a foot in the last 24.

[harryzimm]

Hate my first post to be contesting someone else's point, but this is most likely due totally to the fact that you're using Linux. Running my hardware configuration (6000+, Gigabyte 790G motherboard, IGP clocked to 800Mhz, *NO DISCRETE VIDEO CARD*, 2 gigs DDR2-800, WD Caviar) under XP/Vista 32-bit has absolutely no trouble decoding full 1080P. Very very very little stutter.
I was planning on using Linux, but honestly, the state of VGA drivers for Linux is abysmal.

Yes you are correct about the linux drivers. My shuttle with x2 5600 clocked at 3.2ghz can play the killa sample without dropped frames on xbmc for windows but no way on linux. Unfortunatly i much prefer the linux port. To be honest i got so sick of amd 1080p problems that i upgraded to a intel based motherboard with a e8400 (using linux) and haven't had a problem since. It plays all 1080p including planet earth and some home ripped blu rays easy.


My advise to anyone looking to build a htpc still stands. Go intel , the simple fact is they are better and worth the extra cash.

Rule of thumb is that you need 2 Ghz to do 1080p.

I think that's just a tad bit optimistic mate. Im not trying to offend anyone its just my experience. Have a search on the forums for the killa sample and post your playback results at 2ghz.

cheers

[avickery]

That's my biggest (and only) gripe about Linux. Drivers.
For everything else I can use it for, I use a *nix variant (Mac OS 10.5.4 on my laptop, SLES9 on my home desktop (OpenLDAP domain controller), and
as many systems at work as I can possibly run Linux on;

I recently built 5 high-end Dell T7400 8-Core Xeon workstations with 4-disk Raid 10 SAS arrays, NVidia QuadroFX cards, etc... for heavy-duty FEA (Finite Element Analysis) with Ansys. Linux is 10%-15% faster per job, plus provides better HPC support, than XP-64. So Linux wins there.

Intel/AMD to me has always been about the same. Most applications have pretty identical bang-for-buck ratio. I chose my recent HTPC rig mostly due to the fact that I wanted a minimal system with maximum features. The GeForce 8300 series IGP motherboards are really nice, and correct me if I'm wrong, do offer 7.1 HD Audio over HDMI, which is sweet. Mine doesn't have that feature. BUT, from video decode to casual gaming, performs slightly better, and has more features that I was looking for for about 2/3's the price overall.

Also, at work, with the exception of a couple servers, we're an Intel-only shop.