2009-09-04, 17:42
Also check your local EB Games stores, they are owned by GameStop I believe.
2009-09-04, 20:03
Wow that sounds like an awesome project. Sounds like 12 times the trouble that regular Xbox owners have. 
Just remember that means
12 Xbox's
12 Remotes
12 Power cables
12 Tv Cables
If you do go wireless save your self some money and not buy 12 of the Wireless adapters that microsoft sells. I used this on my Xbox and 360 and it worked perfectly because it used to serve 2 devices at the sametime. Hell mount one on one side of the wall and drill a hole through and connect the other.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=WGPS606...&_osacat=0
Of course they have seem to have gone up in price lately, but you can configure it with a laptop and then just plug in your Xbox and let it do its thing.
Personally go wired all the way, but thats just me.
Just remember that means
12 Xbox's
12 Remotes
12 Power cables
12 Tv Cables
If you do go wireless save your self some money and not buy 12 of the Wireless adapters that microsoft sells. I used this on my Xbox and 360 and it worked perfectly because it used to serve 2 devices at the sametime. Hell mount one on one side of the wall and drill a hole through and connect the other.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=WGPS606...&_osacat=0
Of course they have seem to have gone up in price lately, but you can configure it with a laptop and then just plug in your Xbox and let it do its thing.
Personally go wired all the way, but thats just me.
2009-09-04, 20:17
You know, an alternative option is to simply give each xbox a huge harddrive via a usb external harddrive and nas adapter suggested on the first page. You wouldn't have to worry about server thoroughput or wiring walls or getting some monster nas server.
Plus, if you were willing to go through the initial horrorfest of reencoding your movies to xvid, each one could only take about a gig a piece, allowing pretty much your entire library to fit on one Tb external harddrive.
Plus, if you were willing to go through the initial horrorfest of reencoding your movies to xvid, each one could only take about a gig a piece, allowing pretty much your entire library to fit on one Tb external harddrive.
2009-09-05, 11:30
You can use dlan adapters to turn your buildings power grid into a network.
THis is what I use, 200mbps plugs cost around £20 each though in the UK, I get up to 24mbps sustained per box out of mine (I am running 3 currently)
Performance depends on the quality of your wiring, involvement of the circuit board etc. It works well in my house over 4 floors with wiring runs o up to 70 metres.
As has already been mentioned you could also upgrade the HDD in the individual xboxes - I have been playing with 1tb drives, Western Digital drives cost around £50 no over here work veryy well, low noise and heat. Transfering file takes a while but I have been stabuility testing and they runn perfectly even when left on for days.
As for buying them I pick them up off ebay for mates all the time not much at all £20 a box. You can have a 1tb media box still on the the best solutions on the market for around £70 - £80.
THis is what I use, 200mbps plugs cost around £20 each though in the UK, I get up to 24mbps sustained per box out of mine (I am running 3 currently)
Performance depends on the quality of your wiring, involvement of the circuit board etc. It works well in my house over 4 floors with wiring runs o up to 70 metres.
As has already been mentioned you could also upgrade the HDD in the individual xboxes - I have been playing with 1tb drives, Western Digital drives cost around £50 no over here work veryy well, low noise and heat. Transfering file takes a while but I have been stabuility testing and they runn perfectly even when left on for days.
As for buying them I pick them up off ebay for mates all the time not much at all £20 a box. You can have a 1tb media box still on the the best solutions on the market for around £70 - £80.
2009-09-06, 01:44
Interesting suggestion with the local hard drives, this might help:
http://xboxdrives.x-pec.com/
Some people seem to have succeeded into upgrading to 1 TB HDDs, probably with SATA to IDE adapters. Did the HDD upgrade 3 years ago with a 250 GB Samsung 5760rpm IDE drive, warmly recommend the brand, quiet running at low temperatures.
http://xboxdrives.x-pec.com/
Some people seem to have succeeded into upgrading to 1 TB HDDs, probably with SATA to IDE adapters. Did the HDD upgrade 3 years ago with a 250 GB Samsung 5760rpm IDE drive, warmly recommend the brand, quiet running at low temperatures.
2009-09-06, 08:30
Regardless of all these the computer/server dishing all this up will need to be meaty, server grade drives too. At the end of it all just perhaps 13 people will be accessing one computer at the same time. My drobo struggles a bit as a NAS with two people connected.
I personally think you are being very very hpefull on 2k, I would say that might, just might cover the server, not including the raid.
You'll also want a skin you can lock down (Is this possible) so people can only access films. Imagine if someone like me turned up playing with this new device found in a hotel room, I would press every button on it, twice.
I personally think you are being very very hpefull on 2k, I would say that might, just might cover the server, not including the raid.
You'll also want a skin you can lock down (Is this possible) so people can only access films. Imagine if someone like me turned up playing with this new device found in a hotel room, I would press every button on it, twice.
2009-09-11, 22:36
Hello again,
I have been able to get a hold of 6 xboxes. I am going to try using a xp computer we can use for a NAS server with a single external 1TB hard drive attached via usb. Sharing this drive with an OS like FreeNAS. My 2K budget was all encompassing, not just the server.
To start, I will try a setup with the 3 cottages and an additional one in the main house. I am going to connect these cottage ones via linksys wireless bridge Ethernet adapters.
I am still not sure how I am going to mod them as there seems to be a few new helper programs since I modded the one a few years ago. I have the splinter cell game and the action reply I used before.
I also don't know the easiest way to rip the dvds. I have the macro script thing that does the 1-click dvd rip for DVD shrink app, but it doesn't always help. (DVD shrink works, tho.)
I will post again when I get the rest of the parts (bridges, remotes, hard drive...) and respond to some of the other comments as well.
Thanks,
Sean
I have been able to get a hold of 6 xboxes. I am going to try using a xp computer we can use for a NAS server with a single external 1TB hard drive attached via usb. Sharing this drive with an OS like FreeNAS. My 2K budget was all encompassing, not just the server.
To start, I will try a setup with the 3 cottages and an additional one in the main house. I am going to connect these cottage ones via linksys wireless bridge Ethernet adapters.I am still not sure how I am going to mod them as there seems to be a few new helper programs since I modded the one a few years ago. I have the splinter cell game and the action reply I used before.
I also don't know the easiest way to rip the dvds. I have the macro script thing that does the 1-click dvd rip for DVD shrink app, but it doesn't always help. (DVD shrink works, tho.)
I will post again when I get the rest of the parts (bridges, remotes, hard drive...) and respond to some of the other comments as well.
Thanks,
Sean
2009-09-12, 09:45
seems you did not follow any advice...good luck then! You will need a lot!!! 
2009-09-16, 05:47
I don't normally post on forums but having read your thread I couldn't help myself. Having been a network and 3rd line support engineer in my time I can only say stop and think. More importantly, actually listen to the people that have tried to help especially as you asked for it and they were gracious enough to provide it.
To do what you want and at the same time ensure that guests are satisfied with the service you would be providing them (for which they will complain if it doesn't work) there is no way around the problem that it will cost you money.
At the very least you need a proper network raid storage device or a server with a decent raid card in it (not a cheap one). Although as you only need fast storage a Synology budget NAS for example would do, simply buy a chassis and fill it will inexpensive disks.
The easiest and fastest method of ripping your discs and compressing them to .avi etc is CloneDVD mobile. Customers are unlikely to want the DVD menu or special features and will unlikely to have ever had this as part of any in room movie streaming they've purchased.
I'm guessing you don't have stupidly expensive HiDef devices in the rooms so compression is the only way to go especially if you have 1K DVD's and want those to fit onto a couple of terabytes of storage. However, currently available wireless network standards are not designed to support what you want to do.
What you're proposing, even just for your test, is the equivalent of promising 4 people a pint of beer at the same time when you only have 1 pint to share between them and 1 pair of hands to share it with. That's before you deal with the issue that to fill their glasses you'll have to throw the liquid and therefore will waste beer before any even reaches them.
Also a USB drive is not designed as a multi-user device and consequently doesn't handle multiple concurrent IO requests (even if they're just reads) very well. Connecting a USB drive to a server does not give you a streaming media server, all it gives you is a server with a USB drive attached to it.
This is fine if you want to stream one movie to another computer but as soon as multiple people start requesting different movies (that are read from separate parts of the disk) at the same time, your USB drive is not going to be able to cope. Your guests won't care about this but they will care about the stuttering, freezing, skipping and screen artefacts and all round sluggish performance of their in room entertainment.
In short, cheap streaming media server is cheap! What's worse is that you will spend what money you have on something that doesn't do what you want it to do.
To do what you want and at the same time ensure that guests are satisfied with the service you would be providing them (for which they will complain if it doesn't work) there is no way around the problem that it will cost you money.
At the very least you need a proper network raid storage device or a server with a decent raid card in it (not a cheap one). Although as you only need fast storage a Synology budget NAS for example would do, simply buy a chassis and fill it will inexpensive disks.
The easiest and fastest method of ripping your discs and compressing them to .avi etc is CloneDVD mobile. Customers are unlikely to want the DVD menu or special features and will unlikely to have ever had this as part of any in room movie streaming they've purchased.
I'm guessing you don't have stupidly expensive HiDef devices in the rooms so compression is the only way to go especially if you have 1K DVD's and want those to fit onto a couple of terabytes of storage. However, currently available wireless network standards are not designed to support what you want to do.
What you're proposing, even just for your test, is the equivalent of promising 4 people a pint of beer at the same time when you only have 1 pint to share between them and 1 pair of hands to share it with. That's before you deal with the issue that to fill their glasses you'll have to throw the liquid and therefore will waste beer before any even reaches them.
Also a USB drive is not designed as a multi-user device and consequently doesn't handle multiple concurrent IO requests (even if they're just reads) very well. Connecting a USB drive to a server does not give you a streaming media server, all it gives you is a server with a USB drive attached to it.
This is fine if you want to stream one movie to another computer but as soon as multiple people start requesting different movies (that are read from separate parts of the disk) at the same time, your USB drive is not going to be able to cope. Your guests won't care about this but they will care about the stuttering, freezing, skipping and screen artefacts and all round sluggish performance of their in room entertainment.
In short, cheap streaming media server is cheap! What's worse is that you will spend what money you have on something that doesn't do what you want it to do.
2009-09-16, 11:51
I have to say after reading this, stop now and think before you waste anymore money. Listen to what people are telling you. This was my day job for a number of years and how you are planning on doing this just isn't going to work, or if (and it wont be often) it does your users are going to have a crappy experience and all of the hassles that go with it.
Now what you want to do isn't all that hard and is achievable on a budget.
1. The big question for you is how many concurrent streams will you be feeding at once. You mention 13 rooms, but do mention how many of those will typically (and at peak times be accessing the system). Assuming 80% occupancy you are looking at potentially 10 video streams being served out at once.
2. 10 video streams at 1.5mbit/s = 15mbit/s for compressed videos (e.g converted to xvid, etc...). 10 video streams at 8mbit/s videos (typical dvd bitrates) = 80mbit/s.
3. Wifi for video streaming is simply not an option unless you are spending big money on decent access points and wifi adaptors (something capable of doing what you want reliably over wifi will cost more than your total budget). Don't waste your time effort, money and users experience on this it simply wont work. Sure its find for your wifi but it is not going to happen for reliable video delivery.
4. You need a server to serve out your media, doesn't need to be anything over the top. Get a nice big case capable of adding lots of drives. Get something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6811219021
5. Putting your media on external usb drives is not an option. Again don't waste your time or money.
6. RAID is not optional, you need it not for the redundancy but for reliably handling multiple concurrent video streams.
7. Given point 6, rather than using 4x 1tb drives in RAID5 to give you 3tb of useable space, use 7 500gb drives in RAID5 (more spindles the better the performance).
8. Running CAT5 is not difficult to do, you could easily do this yourself and save a good chunk of cash.
9. I wouldn't personally recommend powerline either, especially when you start to add lots of devices. However that being said it is a better option than wifi, and might work for a few devices.
10. This can be done on a budget, however i think $2k could be a little low. At a guess you are probably looking at about $1200ish for the server at least.
11. Stick freenas on the server if you want, or go for a minimal linux install. I've had issues with freenas when it was first released and its software raid support. That was a long time ago, so may be fine now.
Now what you want to do isn't all that hard and is achievable on a budget.
1. The big question for you is how many concurrent streams will you be feeding at once. You mention 13 rooms, but do mention how many of those will typically (and at peak times be accessing the system). Assuming 80% occupancy you are looking at potentially 10 video streams being served out at once.
2. 10 video streams at 1.5mbit/s = 15mbit/s for compressed videos (e.g converted to xvid, etc...). 10 video streams at 8mbit/s videos (typical dvd bitrates) = 80mbit/s.
3. Wifi for video streaming is simply not an option unless you are spending big money on decent access points and wifi adaptors (something capable of doing what you want reliably over wifi will cost more than your total budget). Don't waste your time effort, money and users experience on this it simply wont work. Sure its find for your wifi but it is not going to happen for reliable video delivery.
4. You need a server to serve out your media, doesn't need to be anything over the top. Get a nice big case capable of adding lots of drives. Get something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6811219021
5. Putting your media on external usb drives is not an option. Again don't waste your time or money.
6. RAID is not optional, you need it not for the redundancy but for reliably handling multiple concurrent video streams.
7. Given point 6, rather than using 4x 1tb drives in RAID5 to give you 3tb of useable space, use 7 500gb drives in RAID5 (more spindles the better the performance).
8. Running CAT5 is not difficult to do, you could easily do this yourself and save a good chunk of cash.
9. I wouldn't personally recommend powerline either, especially when you start to add lots of devices. However that being said it is a better option than wifi, and might work for a few devices.
10. This can be done on a budget, however i think $2k could be a little low. At a guess you are probably looking at about $1200ish for the server at least.
11. Stick freenas on the server if you want, or go for a minimal linux install. I've had issues with freenas when it was first released and its software raid support. That was a long time ago, so may be fine now.
2009-09-16, 15:46
Quote:(*) Those networks work nicely over your power line, but they're not secure and they are reachable from the whole building they're attached to. Just in case you think security could be a matter...
Also, the quoted bandwidth for those devices is a total bandwidth over your power lines, not bandwidth between two devices, so for an 85mbps powerline networking kit that's 85mbps total backbone, regardless of whether you install 2 or 16 of them, each additional device adds to the load on your 85mbps backbone. So you might find that the network load exceeds the capabilities of these devices if they are all used at a similar time, which they inevitably will be...
2009-09-16, 15:50
Quote:10. This can be done on a budget, however i think $2k could be a little low. At a guess you are probably looking at about $1200ish for the server at least.
Remember there is a concurrent connection limit of TCP/IP for Vista/XP, I think it's around the 10 concurrent connection mark. So either go with a server based OS, or open source... or of course there is the TCP/IP connection limit hack...
2009-09-16, 16:13
Phuqz Wrote:Also a USB drive is not designed as a multi-user device and consequently doesn't handle multiple concurrent IO requests (even if they're just reads) very well. Connecting a USB drive to a server does not give you a streaming media server, all it gives you is a server with a USB drive attached to it.I am going to have to disagree with a portion of that... I use a WD My book Ultimate II 1tb for all movies (tv are stored on teh raid array).. Granted the My Book Ultimate II is a RAID0 enclosure and i have it connected via firewire 400, but even when connected via usb, i can stream 3 clients without a problem.. USB can handle multiple concurrent IO requests very wells (especially SSDs).. limitations are the drives themselves...
prae5 Wrote:6. RAID is not optional, you need it not for the redundancy but for reliably handling multiple concurrent video streams.Good points.. redundancy is not the primary, but it is an important reason to go for a raid 5 array and loose (1/n)th totall storage space where n represents the number of drives... for that 1/4, 1/5 or 1/6th of space you gain, you have the possibility of loosing all data on a RAID0... yes 6 is better then 4, and 7 is better then 6.. just saying the minimum you would need is around 4 drives... It could work fine in a 4 drive raid5 but if you have the money to get a decent raid card and decent drives then go for a 6 drive raid5 config...
7. Given point 6, rather than using 4x 1tb drives in RAID5 to give you 3tb of useable space, use 7 500gb drives in RAID5 (more spindles the better the performance).
9. I wouldn't personally recommend powerline either, especially when you start to add lots of devices. However that being said it is a better option than wifi, and might work for a few devices.
I wouldn't say powerlines would be better option than wifi... More then likely they will be a worse option... Depending upon wiring, devices plugged into the power system, and general distance, the S:N of powerlines could be so bad that you have minimal possible speed (hell you could even have them unable to establish a connection)... Let alone the cottages probably wont work since more then likely they have their own breaker... so 10 in the primary place.. that is 10 tvs, 10 xboxs, lights, and anything else plugged into the wall and 9 other devices attempting to isolate out the signal causing their own noise that a single powerline has to attempt to isolate out....
Best option in wireless would be to pick up some WRT54G(s) v1-2.2 and modify them with DD-WRT.. crack open the router and apply a small heatsync to the primary processor and antenna processing chip with some silver thermal compound... Get some 5-7 dBi antennas and enable afterburner (speedboost and whatever else it is known by)... setup these as client bridges which work as wireless to ethernet adapter.. wire 4 rooms to each router.. means you only have to run cat5e between 4 rooms and tie to a single point instead of running it from each room to a central location..
If you use a primary router for the signal capable of afterburner, then you should theoretically see speeds around 125mbps...
turbodonkey Wrote:Remember there is a concurrent connection limit of TCP/IP for Vista/XP, I think it's around the 10 concurrent connection mark. So either go with a server based OS, or open source... or of course there is the TCP/IP connection limit hack...
Just get Windows Vista Ultimate.. No concurrent connection limits
but the patch is incredibly simple to apply also..
Hello again.
I have been pretty busy with work but had some time to tinker last night modding some of the xboxes. So, I am sorry for not keeping up on the responses. I never was the responsible type.
I appreciate everyone helping and giving advice. I has a few thoughts about making a separate wireless network for the 3 cottages only. These cottages would then have a NAS media drive with the movies. I would then copy that to perhaps a raid config (I like the 500GB option mentioned by prae) for use in the 8 rooms in the mansion. -Maybe.-
I put a few movies on our server (not media server) and connected an xbox wirelessly and was surprised that the .ISO image was still juuuust a little choppy during action scenes and smooth camera panning. Will converting to xvid or something similar help with that choppyness??
Speaking os such, I am sure you have heard of the one-click dvd macro helper program for DVD Shrink I mentioned earlier, right? Is there a program like that to somehow speed up the process of converting .ISO's to a compressed format?? I would image it would be tough since DVD's contain so much more than just a movie and english audio. For example I would want to have the option to turn subtitles on/off. That seems like too much to ask, tho. - I don't know what is the best format for my situation anyway. ??
When it comes to money, I like a plan that allows us to add/expand as we go. That way we are not wasting money, just some guests rooms might not be set up the same way.
Does anyone have any thoughts on video over cat5?? I seem to remember that you can pretty much run anything over cat 5. If I am going to wire (maybe just one floor at a time?) the rooms, why not run 2 cables per room. I considered having the xboxes somewhere else, like the basement. Then run the video over cat5 to the rooms, and the network cat 5 to the switch?? I don't know how expensive an adapter would be, or how much an IR blaster kit would be, tho.
I am really liking the MediaStream skin. I am not liking the super small font. Is there an easy way to change that?? Even in 'Massive' it doesn't get bigger. Something else might be wrong also, and the MC360 skin does not work for me. Is customizing a skin really that hard for a novice? I would want to change the font size, disable turning off from the GUI, and locking some settings with a password. I see something about "master lock" but haven't messed with it. Speaking of passwords... everytime I turn off the xbox, I have to go into videos, and re-enter my username and password. Is there an easy way to make it remember?? i must be missing something.
Oh, I almost forgot... is there a way to test the bandwidth that I have, am using, and will need somehow??
(The double ? is to help me keep things straight, sorry.)
Thanks,
Sean
I have been pretty busy with work but had some time to tinker last night modding some of the xboxes. So, I am sorry for not keeping up on the responses. I never was the responsible type.
I appreciate everyone helping and giving advice. I has a few thoughts about making a separate wireless network for the 3 cottages only. These cottages would then have a NAS media drive with the movies. I would then copy that to perhaps a raid config (I like the 500GB option mentioned by prae) for use in the 8 rooms in the mansion. -Maybe.-
I put a few movies on our server (not media server) and connected an xbox wirelessly and was surprised that the .ISO image was still juuuust a little choppy during action scenes and smooth camera panning. Will converting to xvid or something similar help with that choppyness??
Speaking os such, I am sure you have heard of the one-click dvd macro helper program for DVD Shrink I mentioned earlier, right? Is there a program like that to somehow speed up the process of converting .ISO's to a compressed format?? I would image it would be tough since DVD's contain so much more than just a movie and english audio. For example I would want to have the option to turn subtitles on/off. That seems like too much to ask, tho. - I don't know what is the best format for my situation anyway. ??
When it comes to money, I like a plan that allows us to add/expand as we go. That way we are not wasting money, just some guests rooms might not be set up the same way.
Does anyone have any thoughts on video over cat5?? I seem to remember that you can pretty much run anything over cat 5. If I am going to wire (maybe just one floor at a time?) the rooms, why not run 2 cables per room. I considered having the xboxes somewhere else, like the basement. Then run the video over cat5 to the rooms, and the network cat 5 to the switch?? I don't know how expensive an adapter would be, or how much an IR blaster kit would be, tho.
I am really liking the MediaStream skin. I am not liking the super small font. Is there an easy way to change that?? Even in 'Massive' it doesn't get bigger. Something else might be wrong also, and the MC360 skin does not work for me. Is customizing a skin really that hard for a novice? I would want to change the font size, disable turning off from the GUI, and locking some settings with a password. I see something about "master lock" but haven't messed with it. Speaking of passwords... everytime I turn off the xbox, I have to go into videos, and re-enter my username and password. Is there an easy way to make it remember?? i must be missing something.
Oh, I almost forgot... is there a way to test the bandwidth that I have, am using, and will need somehow??
(The double ? is to help me keep things straight, sorry.)
Thanks,
Sean
2009-09-17, 00:36
I would avoid the iomega drive, check out the prosumer/small/med business NAS's from Readynas(netgear) and thecus.
readynas pro
readynas nvx (avoid the nv+ its too slow to stream that much concurrently)
thecus 4x00, 5x00, or 7700
wireless to the cottages seems like it would fine, but I would definately try to get cat 5 or 6 to the rooms you can.
the xbox only has 100mb ethernet, but I would use a gigabit switch to connect everything, especially the nas.
starting small is the way to go, I would simply keep the boxes in the office and rent/sign them out only to customers who are interested, at least until you can afford to build out/buy more stuff, and discover any other issues that come up.
if you go the iso route (4gig with menus etc), then anydvd + dvd shrink is the way to go IMO.
anydvd + clone dvd mobile can get you easy to use avi files much smaller than ISO, but without menus of course.
ripping time is directly proportional to the cpu power of the computer doing the shrink.. intel quad cores are pretty fast, my q6600 rips/shrinks a dvd in bout 20-30 minutes including the extra analysis pass.
you can set the default user/password in the xbmc network options, look for smb client options.
readynas pro
readynas nvx (avoid the nv+ its too slow to stream that much concurrently)
thecus 4x00, 5x00, or 7700
wireless to the cottages seems like it would fine, but I would definately try to get cat 5 or 6 to the rooms you can.
the xbox only has 100mb ethernet, but I would use a gigabit switch to connect everything, especially the nas.
starting small is the way to go, I would simply keep the boxes in the office and rent/sign them out only to customers who are interested, at least until you can afford to build out/buy more stuff, and discover any other issues that come up.
if you go the iso route (4gig with menus etc), then anydvd + dvd shrink is the way to go IMO.
anydvd + clone dvd mobile can get you easy to use avi files much smaller than ISO, but without menus of course.
ripping time is directly proportional to the cpu power of the computer doing the shrink.. intel quad cores are pretty fast, my q6600 rips/shrinks a dvd in bout 20-30 minutes including the extra analysis pass.
you can set the default user/password in the xbmc network options, look for smb client options.
