3DTV Support - Play "3D" Movies in XBMC plus have GUI / OSD and subtitles just work?

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Vultures Offline
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Post: #76
dagbro Wrote:One significant advantage is that you can output true 23,976Hz, because
with a 120Hz shutter-glasses TV you'll get pulldown issues playing a 24fps 3d film.

Not really. Panasonic supports "true" 24p, as well of bunch of others shutter-glass TVs.
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iainmacleod Offline
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Post: #77
I got mine to work with Side-by-side and Top/Bottom, however the TV did not automatically change into the appropriate mode - as if the card was not telling the TV that 3D content was being displayed.

Can anyone think of a reason why this might be the case?

XBMC on RPi, and Zotac box (Openelec flavor)
NAS4Free with 8TB of storage.
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dagbro Offline
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Post: #78
Vultures Wrote:Not really. Panasonic supports "true" 24p, as well of bunch of others shutter-glass TVs.

oh, my bad. I thought all the 3d-ready shutter-glass tvs displayed 3d in 120Hz page-flip format.

edit; did some searching and apparently you have to choose between 60Hz and 48Hz per eye.. so it's either pulldown judder or plain old flicker, then.

RealD cinemas kind of use a shutter, too, but it's located inside the projector, and runs at 144Hz. so that's 3:3 pulldown at 72Hz per eye.
no flicker and noo judder. What were the 3dtv makers thinking?
(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 16:52 by dagbro.)
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modernninja Offline
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Post: #79
dagbro Wrote:how about those of us with polarized dual projector setups? It's really great, all you really need is two projectors, a metallized screen, polarizers and a pair of passive glasses that cost a buck each. (i got 15 pairs for $20 shipped.)

One significant advantage is that you can output true 23,976Hz, because
with a 120Hz shutter-glasses TV you'll get pulldown issues playing a 24fps 3d film.

AND, right now a setup like this is cheaper than just about any 3d-ready tv on the market.. and don't even get me started on price per inch >.<


Anyway, it's simply a matter of decoding the stream(or streams) and outputting the images for left and right to two separate X monitors simultaneously. (with of course the double subtitles that you'll need for any 3dtv too) Planar 3d displays use the same dual output btw.

No image sync or glasses control, just the two separate outputs.


Stereoscopic Player works fine, but it's not for linux and doesn't have a very sexy interface.. it's kinda like mplayerc but more grayish and boring, if it's at all possible.



btw, i think xbmc should scan the filenames for "3D" and more specifically "Half SBS" and so on, just to automagically know how it should output the file.. end users don't want to work through context menus and mark all their 3d stuff as sbs or over/under and so on Rolleyes

My Panasonic Viera GT25 has no problems with pulldown issues, and you can see that in several reviews of the VT25 (which is pretty much the same tv minus a few inputs on the back panel) that Panasonic has taken care of that problem quite well...

Panasonic also set up their 3d systems to handle many different variations of 3d, from SBS, over under, stereoscopic, anaglyph, etc...all selectable by remote or you can simply leave it on autodetect...the tv also does a good job of upconverting 2d to 3d, as my girlfriend found out last night the hard way when she accidentally hit the 2d-3d menu button during an episode of "16 and pregnant"...don't think she'll be messing with that feature again anytime soon, lol. Wink

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Anastrophe Offline
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Post: #80
that's strange as last time I looked my VT25 didn't have a 2D to 3D mode - I haven't looked since the last update though.
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StarChild Offline
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Post: #81
dagbro Wrote:One significant advantage is that you can output true 23,976Hz, because
with a 120Hz shutter-glasses TV you'll get pulldown issues playing a 24fps 3d film.
120Hz normally uses 5:5 pulldown for 24p content. So whats the issue? You don't want 24Hz on shutter-glasses, it would flicker.

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(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 20:27 by StarChild.)
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poofyhairguy Offline
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Post: #82
MacLeod_1980 Wrote:Can anyone think of a reason why this might be the case?

It won't do that for Half SBS and TnB files because the system thinks they are just regular 1080p files.

If you play a full SBS file on Windows XBMC (with a GT430), the TV WILL kick into 3D mode. It is like that extra high resolution "turns 3D on." This presents a problem though, as full 3D is not SBS and certain TVs (like my Samsung) won't let you change over to SBS and TnB modes once they are in "official" 3D mode. Until XBMC can play 3D content like its meant to be played (aka FFMPEG gets 3D support), half SBS and TnB files are way easier to mess with.

Your TV should have a 3D button. Just map the commands to switch 3D and SBS to a Harmony macro and you are set. Turn it to 3D content, hit one button, and show off the future to your friends.

The only real problem usability-wise in XBMC is that the menus are not 3D compatible. I am actually considering getting a Boxee Box to play my 3D content for that reason.

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(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 20:15 by poofyhairguy.)
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poofyhairguy Offline
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Post: #83
Anastrophe Wrote:that's strange as last time I looked my VT25 didn't have a 2D to 3D mode - I haven't looked since the last update though.

The GT25 is newer than the VT25, which is why it has a 2D to 3D mode.

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dagbro Offline
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Post: #84
StarChild Wrote:120Hz is 5:5 pulldown for 24p content. So whats the issue? You don't want 24Hz on shutter-glasses, it would flicker.

Yes, 120Hz IS indeed 5:5 for 24p content. the issue is that when you play 3d content, the TV is constantly alternating between the left and right image frame on those 120Hz, so essentially, you're playing them both at 60Hz each=2:3 pulldown judder.

Refresh rates for correct 24p 3d playback on a shutter-based system has to be a multiple of 48Hz. of course 48Hz would flicker like crazy at 24Hz per eye. 96Hz will still flicker a bit for most people, and even if they don't notice it, it could probably induce headaches(like a low-refresh CRT).

144Hz OTOH would be perfectly still for most people.
(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 20:35 by dagbro.)
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StarChild Offline
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Post: #85
dagbro Wrote:Yes, 120Hz IS indeed 5:5 for 24p content. the issue is that when you play 3d content, the TV is constantly alternating between the left and right image frame on those 120Hz, so essentially, you're playing them both at 60Hz each=2:3 pulldown judder.
Not necessary. I'm not updated how the TV handle it. But technically it's possible. If the shutter glasses work in 120Hz it's not necessary need to be on the same eye when a new frame kicks in.
Frame 1: right, left, right, left, right
Frame 2: left, right, left, right, left
Frame 3: right, left, right, left, right
Frame 4: left, right, left, right, left
and so on... This way theres no need for 3:2 pulldown.

But note, I don't know if the TVs uses this method.

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dagbro Offline
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Post: #86
well, that's still pulldown Tongue only difference is that it's 3:2 for the right eye and 2:3 for the left.

why? the right eye sees "frame 1" three times in the first frame cycle, and "frame 2" twice in the next.
in reality, it's just like displaying it at 60Hz
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StarChild Offline
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Post: #87
The difference is that with you would get rid of the 3:2 pulldown judder.

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(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 21:49 by StarChild.)
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dagbro Offline
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Post: #88
no offence, but no, you just wont.

focus on the right eye. it sees the frames like this;

1
1
1

2
2

3
3
3

4
4


left eye would be the other way around
i'd like to hear you argue about how that isn't 3:2 pulldown

btw, for comparing purposes only, this is what you'd get watching a 24p 2d film in 60Hz. You'd see the following frames(but with both eyes)
1
1
1

2
2

3
3
3

4
4


eller måste jag förenkla mer? Tongue
(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 21:50 by dagbro.)
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StarChild Offline
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Post: #89
With the method I described each frame would be displayed exactly the same amount of time. Thats not the case in 3:2 pulldown.

The 120Hz 3:2 pulldown you talk about would look like this:
Frame 1: right, left
Frame 1: right, left
Frame 1: right, left
Frame 2: right, left
Frame 2: right, left
Frame 3: right, left
Frame 3: right, left
Frame 3: right, left
... and so on.

The eye/brain dosn't care about how many times you see it, it only cares about how long time it sees it.

... But maybe we could move this in to a PM, as it's getting pretty Off Topic.

EDIT: Or another way to see 3:2 pulldown like this:
Frame 1: right, left, right, left, right, left
Frame 2: right, left, right, left
Frame 3: right, left, right, left, right, left
Frame 4: right, left, right, left
...

XBMC Dharma 10.1, Win7 running on an ASRock ION 330HT
(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 22:22 by StarChild.)
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dagbro Offline
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Post: #90
you're wrong. I agree with you on one point however, frame X will display exactly 5 times.
But remember, we have two different "frame X". frame X left and frame X right

it's just physically impossible to display our two different frame Xs an equal amount of time on the five 120Hz scans we're given.

ah, PM it is. sorry Smile
(This post was last modified: 2010-12-23 23:14 by dagbro.)
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