how do you write that?
downloads of OpenElec, you'll find at:
XBMC-Live Install script. For Minimal Unbuntu Install
Joined: Aug 2009
2011-01-03 22:56 Post: #191
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: in a Dropbox
2011-01-03 23:55 Post: #192
Its not hard to maintain when the problems are solved annd it is all modular so each area says what it does...
I don't have the skills to keep at it yet I did way more then that by myself.
Nothing good comes of easy/lazy work.
Openelec and the script cant be used together simply because openelec is not Debian based, I know I spoke to the dev many times.
I would enjoy having people to share the work even despite being really ill, yet they all run when they crack the script open.
yet your suggestion could probably make it simpler but I see now, it unlikely.
Also the point of having a installer with menu parts all in one despite size is easier to maintain and easier for the end user to use.
I wouldn't want to be hours running scripts when I can do it all in one hour.
Thx anyway man, rather you tell me that you not going to do it then to say yes and disapear like the rest of all the others, including the other co-founder.
(This post was last modified: 2011-01-03 23:57 by X3lectric.)
Joined: Aug 2009
2011-01-04 02:26 Post: #193
I'm affraid you'll have to help me out a little, I'm just trying to understand.
Hope you're not pissed because I said it's hard to maintain?
It is only to help pointing difficulties and finding solutions for it.
X3lectric Wrote:@ johan_trewhat do you mean by that?
I hope you're not offended when I found it a hard-to-maintain script.
And I've done the effort of reading it, in order to solve the problem I had at the time.
Conclusion for me: It's far to long to be kept clear, all the dialog clutter doesn't do good to it, the mix between installation ways doing the same thing, the incorrect Alsa installation, the ever recurring ppa problems (you're not the only having these prob's, xbmscript has the same issue), it's all just confusing. All in one script.
Go back to the last problem: installation ends up in a ghost process.
now what? where is the problem? the wheel stops rolling. end users get no support.
You want (i guess) a solution, the users want it too.
I've also tried it, thing doesn't work.
And the problem remains.
Can you imagine what a non-developer sees opening that script?
His conclusion will be simple: it doesn't work. Period.
I believe that a split up of the script would make it easier to understand and to report problems on.
It would help less skilled people to add feedback in order to help developers better.
I'm not a scripting ninja, so I'm interested in anyone's feedback to understand this better.
For instance yours. I think you say that a splitup is not a good idea? (see below) I would like to understand why.
Maybe the merge of your, my and others knowledge can bring something better.
The only solution of bringing improvement is cooperating.
My idea is that it is not really easy to maintain, so I thought a split-up would be a good solution.
Like that, the parts of the script can kept stable, if they do not change.
Like that, the parts causing troubles could be adapted, and also easier to spot. And those are not the only advantages I think.
So in my search of solutions (here I got stuck unfortunately) I found OpenElec.tv that has a bit the problem of inflexibility due to hardware setups, BUT has the advantage of a all-in-one installation.
And that did rang a bell to me, since I've used XCI till I got stuck: XCI has the marvelous option to have an installation approach where you choose your drivers.
I find it really a good script. I honestly do.
You'll understand the irritation when installing Dharma and nvidia 256 (my previous setup) was also not installing properly anymore.
Then I'm out of options... I see people having the same problem, and there it ends if there comes no response of the forum.
So you start looking into the script. And looking into the script gives some info, but regarding the last problem, (the ghost process) there is not so much you can do but comparing the working and non-working version in order to see what has changed.
Guess what... not so much was changed. So what could be the problem then?? It's at THAT moment you decide to look for other options. Forced a little, because of the lack of knowledge and support.
I wanted a solution for my problem.
See what I mean?
Understand how I came to the ideas?
They are not meant to be offending. Only to help.
X3lectric Wrote:Nothing good comes of easy/lazy work.Totally agree on that one!!
X3lectric Wrote:Openelec and the script cant be used together simply because openelec is not Debian based, I know I spoke to the dev many times.Shit, how come?
Has OpenElec's distro no similar "dialog" package then?
X3lectric Wrote:yet your suggestion could probably make it simpler but I see now, it unlikely.So split up is not a good idea, is that what you're saying?
X3lectric Wrote:Also the point of having a installer with menu parts all in one despite size is easier to maintain and easier for the end user to use.The menu handler is not a good idea, is that what you're saying?
If it increases simplicity by splitting up in an flexible way, why not?
To me it seemed a good idea... (but maybe unfeasible?)
X3lectric Wrote:I wouldn't want to be hours running scripts when I can do it all in one hour.Please explain? "hours running scripts". For which conditions you mean that?
A split up can't make that difference, can it?
When I speak about splitting up, I mean this in an dynamic way. So that the user can't see the difference between the old and the new script. The only difference would be simplicity when a problem occurs, and a cause of problem could easier be pointed.
One script can call another, no?
Having one script representing the main stream of dialogs etc, calling scripts doing the work is not such a bad idea, no?
Maybe I'm to progressive in my perception about the possibilities here?
X3lectric Wrote:Thx anyway man, rather you tell me that you not going to do it then to say yes and disapear like the rest of all the others, including the other co-founder.You mean I'm chickening out or so?
I just want to put my effort the most effecient way
My attempt to find out the ghost process problem showed me how easily comes to a dead end. I wasn't the first reporting that problem.
And I've done the effort of cracking open the script without success.
For me, it's a way of contributing, by giving suggestions.
Maybe these ideas are stupid, not possible, or whatever.
But at least I offer them.
So I expect feedback. And maybe that feedback helps me finding a solution, and if so, you'll see a post of me for sure.
It's only in an effort to help mate.
Improvement can be made by working together.
The coming days I'll give it a try for a retest of the scripts latest version.
I'll post my findings if there is any change.
My installation test:
stable version xbmc +
nvidia drivers 256 (which worked in the past for me) +
external Alsa 1.0.23 installation (the xci version is not working correctly for some reason)
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: in a Dropbox
2011-01-04 21:28 Post: #194
johan_tre Wrote:what do you mean by that?
1) I did not code 90% of that script, I found fixes tweaked the s[elling and wording on script + forums, support and the kitchen sink.
I'm not a developer Linux guru or anything of the sort, though people think so because I'm WAS associated with project like someone that has specific tasks not DEVELOPING, which I had to learn a bit of anyway, and cant understand most of because my illness is detrimental in that way to me.
+ I didn't code most of it that was NOT my job.
Im not offended that you think its a hard to maintain script because it has 3k lines, what I dont apprecciate is that the Dialog part what makes the script look professional, was my idea. It took me months of work to get it right.
your telling me its essentially
Quote:all the dialog clutter doesn't do good to itI can only deduce from that that you don't like it, but its not going to change cause I'm doing a couple of last changes and that's it.
Quote: the incorrect Alsa installationSorry alsa is installed properly in karmic when 9.11 was around, if it didn't work for you, it worked for thousands of other users.
Quote:the ever recurring ppa problems *snip You'll understand the irritation when installing Dharma and nvidia 256 (my previous setup) was also not installing properly anymore.YA cause script is using third party ppas for VIDEO drivers which I have no control of, e.g. GFX drivers which more often then not after 195 are difficult to work with, yet script users dont moan to the ppa maintainer for the video drivers. So I have to do that as well? I did it plenty of times, not any more though.
Quote:Guess what... not so much was changed. So what could be the problem then?? It's at THAT moment you decide to look for other options. Forced a little, because of the lack of knowledge and support.The only way you can help is by:
a) implement your ideas into script, get used to the dialog parts
b) break it up yourself, in fact most of the script functions come form other scripts here in the forums ALL OVER the place, so we decided to put it all together, because IT makes sense. Its simple.
c) just run you part of the wifi script separately.
d) If you think xbmcscript is bad then give up now cause he retired from dev and HE knows what hes doing, in fact in the beginning we used some of his ideas.
Quote: it doesn't work. Period.well the 260 drivers are to blame, so I know I don't have to run over 3000 lines, I just remove the 260 and walla.
Quote:Shit, how come?The only thing in common with debian that openelec has is that it LINUX the packaging and install procedures are completely different and you dont get ppas.
Dialog exist in openelec but trust me run XCI with openelec at your own peril.
Quote:Can you imagine what a non-developer sees opening that script?Ya I open it all the time and even had to fix what I didn't quite understand, since Im NOT a developer.
I got dumped with the whole project, nice no?
Even nicer when you ask help for devs, packages or even someone who can do the documentation and they all either dont apply for position, or say yea Ill do it and then that's the last I ear from them...
Quote:The menu handler is not a good idea, is that what you're saying?
The menu handler is the best we could do to make it a professional script, its not infeasible, you dont agree with it thats fine... You dont have to like everything.... There's no such thing as pleasing everyone.
Quote:Please explain? "hours running scripts". For which conditions you mean that?
Sure a script can call another, that's how the menus work, and I think your really no so experienced like me and you have other ideas and would like to have it done your way...
I'm retiring from XCI, the whole lot. Forums, PPA's, maintaining and everything else...
You can do whatever you like with it, Ill help you with transition and even may help with documentation and support, IF I have the time.
No Im not saying your chickening out, I said others before you have come suggested and then split, expecting me to do the hard work for them, for free.
Suggestions are not help, they are ideas that may work or may not, XCI went through a long, long, long process of development and testing
XCI is what it is today, because people, the users all thousands of them wanted it like that. We listened and worked very hard.
Reporting problems well...
XCI as a nifty feature that uploads all logs to a pastebin, yet only a hand full of users actually use it.
These logs give people that develop and maintain it clews to what's wrong, no other script does this.... yet so users rather just screm ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it doesn't work its broken....
So much for help and feedback...
Look johan_tre, I have explained the best way I could about the script.
You seem like a really interesting person and probably we could work together, but I have real problems in my live.
Im disabled am in serious pain 24/7 for over 3 years, and hardly sleep, so sleep deprivation is really nice when you have to concentrate...
I hope you found this helpful, if your a linux person and want to do whatever with XCI, its yours, Ill help if and when I can.
Team XBMC would say, if you want some function in XBMC that they dont want or dont have time for, they say, submit a patch.
XCI is also opensource for that reason, yet suggestions dont help me fix problems, when I just simply physically and psychophysically cant do it anymore.
See you around, thx for suggestion and Ill wait on your reply if you want to take project over or do your own...
XCI as published to the public to help others, it turned into a hard work time consuming job.
If I would go back now I would have just done it with andy and kept it private and pass it to friends only....
Thx though for all your ideas and suggestion, I hope I was clear and non offensive and Hope you know I'm serious about giving the project away...
Joined: Aug 2009
2011-01-04 23:26 Post: #195
don't be offended by the dialog clutter. Really.
It doesn't mean I don't like the script. I only found it not to clear to dig in.
Keep in mind that the reason I don't like it is also partly because of my background.
Alsa came out not correctly installed.
I've done a simple test:
install karmic, install xci w alsa 1.0.23 -> check alsa versions.
reinstall karmic, install xci with std alsa ver.), my alsa script -> check alsa version.
On the alsa site, there is an alsa-info script, that shows the version of it.
I don't rember the details; but 3 items should have been set to 1.0.23.
After XCI installation (with 1.0.23) only 2 items are set the correct version.
That caused me many many crashes and hours of testing, but finally I could fix that by another alsa install.
Finding another working script made me comparing both scripts as the first thing, but that didn't bring me much further: They appear doing about the same thing, the same way!
With all these vague facts I don't think it was worthed to post it here.
Not so many people are willing to dig in the code. So I left it as it was.
I understand your frustration about people only installing and not looking further. But sometimes, the knowledge and courage is not there to do so.
The ever recurring ppa problems are not your problem indeed. And you're not the first one that encounters the problem.
But would it not be interesting to have own ppa's that shield off regression?
After all: installation with xci for the 256 version was not working anymore.
(I'll see tomorrow when I test it, I have time)
Dunno how to do that to be honest, it's only the idea, and maybe that could get the installations make more stable. With external ppa's, XCI stays dependent and gets the impact when one of them is failing.
I'll have a further look at the final script, maybe there is something I can do. And if it turns out with improvements etc (chances are that I cannot do better then you!), I'll contact you for svn access.
I'm interested in having this working too. But it must be maintainable.
Like it is now, I think it's a hard job.
So don't be disappointed or so if no one is taking over the ownership, you've done a great job till now. (moreover giving circumstances!)
And that I find this a hard-to-maintain, could also be seen as something that tells more about me then you
About the menu thing: I was only curious in the hope to find solutions.
(I don't even know how to do it )
So it's not something I like or not, or I want or force it *my* way.
As long it does the job in the end. That's what most people only care of anyway. (unfortunately sometimes)
So again, for tomorrow; I'll rerun some tests and add feedback.
CU around, and thx for the reply!
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: in a Dropbox
2011-01-05 01:53 Post: #196
To those interested I have just uploaded the LAST version of script which should come to you as auto update.
removed 260 drivers from initial xbmc 10.0 install since the ppa which provides them is buggy on that version, though they still remain for upgrade reasons, post xbmc install
added "warning" that alsa which I backported may cause problems, which is still unknown as no one reported failure with alsa 1.0.23 (until now) but since I learned ppa packiging in a rush and had no guidance or help well, shit happens, I know it works fine with 195 drivers normal alsa 1.0.20.
Alsa can be upgraded later if you enable multichannel audio since normal alsa doesnt support true HD sound.
And again as a reminder I added that XCI is OPENSOURCE so feel free toeither improve it, ignore it or whatever.
I'll be happy to help whoever desires the challenge to help with any transition.
Though it is the VERY latest version and any bug fixes, I may time permitting when XBMC transitions fully from svn to git, change the svn compile to git compile. (no promises) Again I have 0 experience with git.
sorry for the bugs but at some stage its not just XCI.... XBMC has changed an awful lot and quite a bit XCI may require adjustments/tweaking...
I have done all I possible can.
If you read my signature there are forums, XCI ppa's which I did alone with no help or guidance, I wrote and setup the forums and How to and files links etc, there's a sourceforge project page, wiki for documentation, so you really havent been well informed about XCI....
I don't know what you think XCI is but its not just a script, its a full XBMC installer....
there is also dropbox which is where XCI gets all the files preconfigured from directly, which is also free, you will need a refferral and all I need is an email to referr you to open an account.
There is a reason why I have stuff links on my signature....
XCI is too small for svn it works simplay by editing the file adding changes/ uploading to dropbox beta (in this case) folder
to trigger auto updates a file in main root of dropbox called version check is chamged accordingly
hers an example of latest
Quote:VERSION="1.1"that show up with prompt that a new version is available, upgrade and view changelog.
Thanks folks and thats it For XCI
Some of us are not as healthy or lucky, real live sucks
(This post was last modified: 2011-01-05 02:05 by X3lectric.)
Joined: Aug 2009
2011-01-05 18:58 Post: #197
Regarding the failing install: point proven
* Karmic server only
* XBMC + 195 newer nvidia + alsa 1.0.23 in one go.
Same ghost process problem.
Looking into the xci-installer.log: twice the line below.
update-alternatives: error: no alternatives for x-terminal-emulator
And honestly speaking, I believe not nvidia, but this one is the real problem.
Any help or tips about the error above are welcome, cause the x-term thing is unknown stuff for me.
Downstairs I have the same box running, on nvidia 260, with alsa 1.0.23, and it runs stable for few weeks now. So I believe it's fine.
Regarding the 1.0.23 alsa installation:
Download the alsa-info script at Alsa's website.
make it executable by:
check the alsa-info.log by
It should all be set to 1.0.23.
XCI's install has all but the driver only set to 1.0.20.
(that is, following the install as stated above)
Alsa's docs state clear: they all should be set to the same, otherwise hungup's crashes etc.
I'll post my findings after investigation of both subjects.
(This post was last modified: 2011-01-05 19:38 by johan_tre.)
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: in a Dropbox
2011-01-06 01:09 Post: #198
You have to follow these instructions step by step and should go ok.
and then run the script...
Karmic installer has many bugs this is the best workaround I found.
Asla I suspect as much since it is backported form maveick which handles alsa entirely differently,so someone with better knowledge of packaging if they kindly help port alsa 1.0.23 to karmic 100% would resolve this ( Ill give write privileges if anyone can help). (warning added to 1.0,23 alsa) on 1.0998 XCI version.
On ppas I only have issues with alsa,and lm-sensors I cant get them to play nice, Im not that experience d anyways and learned it in two weeks hafl backed with no sleep, I pretty much have the rest sorted, though now were on a difficult retirement stage...
I may even do all the drivers properly for Karmic and lucid if I feel I can do it, but I wont make any promises.
Any additions to script must be added be whoever suggests them. I believe the only remaining issue is resume/wake/suspend issues but I haven't suffered any...
FOr a script this big 1 script bug one ppa bug and another uncertain at this stage I call that VERY good.
Personally MY HTPC using XCI is working 110% minus xbmc bugs.
idk.... We need volunteers to come up and help otherwise everyone looses out. Is there no one? not a single person?
Joined: Aug 2009
2011-01-06 08:26 Post: #199
What I can do is rerun your proposed steps, but I have the impression that these are the same steps I've done a hundred times, I know them by heart
Dunno exactly what the backport means...
Fact is: that you're running with 1.0.20 drivers. I've read some weeks ago something about that, saying it has something to do with your linux kernel. As I understood it, having the driver version still on 1.0.20. means you're still running your old version of the kernel.
I can post here my script, it's quite simple.
The way it works: wget from alsa site and make, configure & install the stuff.
Can you give me access to the code?
My solution would be to kick out the ppa solution, and paste in my script.
But that would break your efforts for the ppa's which is always a nicer solution I think.
Though the results should be the same: a full 1.0.23 version.
Another problem is still the xorg.
So if the there is no solution for that, giving me svn access is useless, since xbmc doens't evens start.
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: in a Dropbox
2011-01-06 09:32 Post: #200
Quote:What I can do is rerun your proposed steps, but I have the impression that these are the same steps I've done a hundred times, I know them by heartThose are the only way XCI will work best, because of minimal karmic installer bugs, e.g. you end up with open office installed amongst other program a HTPC does NOT need.
Besides its been tested to death by dozens of beta testers.
I wouldn't have bothered writing a how to if there weren't any problems with the NORMAL way of installing it which affect everything.
Quote:Dunno exactly what the backport means...Its apparent you have little knowledge of common Linux terminology, maybe a language barrier? I never asked where your from.
You just say it doesn't work... when it could be simply error on my part, (because I am inexperienced and noone helps me do anything e.g. backporting) Or it could be the version I backported was buggy to begin with.
without YOU knowing the processes you will never understand how it works and why its broken.
Please don't say fact is, when you don't understand what a backport is and why its may not work ok. which I know its not running ok...
I invite you to read ubuntu documentation
I've tried to explain to you that maverick where I took alsa 1.0.23 and alsa-utils and some other critical alsa component I forget now. in a development environment changed files so they would compile in karmic. (they did with no warning or errors)
Now karmic generally handles alsa in a different way to maverick, (see dependencies or initializing code) (i cant tell you specifics google has it somewhere)
Karmic alsa doesn't support multichannel audio hence the need to have updated packages.
The way maverick requires calls on alsa and uses alsa is clearly VERY different from karmic I mean its like comparing a jet plane (maverick) and a Cessna (propeller powered) they both use fule and both fly but they use different methods of propulsion.
Quote:I can post here my script, it's quite simple.Compile any package manually by downloading the source is a temporary solution. a script should avoid temporary solutions, or offer the choice of using ppa or compiling. (this is where the menu system starts to show its power in XCI)
problem is with ever major update you need to re-run these things manually so they become available to system again.
This is why using PPA over manual compile is better because its automatic.
Alos there already is a PROPER manual compile script, both in xbmc source and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6589810
Quote:Can you give me access to the code?What code? XCI code you mean? or something else? if you want XCI code here it is
Quote:Another problem is still the xorg.Ive already said to you there is no SVN for XCI because its way too small and only 1 person working with it, so you just download script and edit it with nano, vim, or if your using a desktop gedit
And there is no problem with xorg, its video drivers or the grubpc bootline. BTW XCI needs XBMC as user and needs grub2 all is explained in guide.
(This post was last modified: 2011-01-06 10:13 by X3lectric.)