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Apple TV Performance with CrystalHD
#1
Question 
So I’ve decided to bit the bullet and pick up an Apple iTV box. Having 5 xBox’s around the house and one ubuntu box, I thought an 160gb iTV for 75 bucks on craigslist would be a nice addition to my XBMC collection.

So, I’ve read I the good stuff about CrystalHD chip so I ordered and installed it, upgraded the firmware from Apple to 3.0.2, Patched it with ATV 4.1.2 , loaded all the Crystal bits v26 and loaded the “Current” SVN nightly build (at this point in May the SVN build is suspended since March for stabilization).

XBMC is up and running, I have the option for Crystal enabled under Video, but playback cannot keep up 24 fps on most content while CPU utilization is low. Granted if I play some older AVI’s it seems to play ok, but any 720p or 1080 files in the 1.5gb+ size don’t play fluid and drop frames and cannot keep up 24fps

Even watching the RSS feed across the bottom seems to jerk every now and then, it’s not fluid and neither is the menu gui. Granted it’s rendering more then the XBOX and Crystal HD doesn’t kick in until playback, but I just expected more. Even playing an older 700mb AVI's there's a "micro-jerks" like some background service is locking the GUI thread and XBMC is unaware.

In thinking this might be an older SVN Issue, I have Factory wiped the unit, did all the patching again and now have loaded the SSHCS (rev 30442) instead of the older nightly. I see they have moved the crystal option to a radio button instead of a render method which I have left at Auto, but the frame rate issue still remains.

Most files I’ve been trying are Mt2s and Mp4 containers but so far I’m not impressed and so far all of the content that plays good on the aTv also plays better on the Xbox? I know these files are just wrappers and i'm in the process of inspecting them with g-spot to see if it will shed any light (ie Only h264?). I've also noticed that if I move the videos local on the aTv that performance does seem a little better.

My network seems to be working fine and using speedtest.net can clock 25\5 dn\up across the network and internet. The filezilla upload of a 4gb file from a Windows 7 box, sourced from my video server (another windows 7 box) to the aTV via copied in about 15 minutes.

Looking at the logs, I can see all sorts of things like.

Code:
19:57:42 T:51768320 M:  3010560   DEBUG: CDVDPlayerAudio:: Discontinuity - was:6084336340.048000, should be:6084350141.612187, error:13801.564187
….
19:57:42 T:51766784 M: 13041664   DEBUG: CrystalHD: SetDropState... 1
19:57:42 T:51766784 M: 13041664   DEBUG: CrystalHD: SetDropState... 0
…..
19:58:12 T:51766784 M:  3952640   DEBUG: CDVDPlayerVideo - CDVDMsg::GENERAL_RESYNC(6114566791.666667, 0)
19:58:12 T:51766784 M:  3948544    INFO: CDVDPlayerVideo - Stillframe left, switching to normal playback
…..
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  2822144   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 51
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  3121152   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 52
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  2854912   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 53
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  2887680   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 54
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  6148096   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 55
...

I know everything is in a complete state of flux right now and the OSX\Apple is't heavily tested, but has anyone seen anything like this?

Much thanks in advance for taking the time to read and reply, and much thanks to the entire XBMC team for all the hard work over the years.

Regards,
Mike
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#2
Mike Pisano Wrote:So I’ve decided to bit the bullet and pick up an Apple iTV box. Having 5 xBox’s around the house and one ubuntu box, I thought an 160gb iTV for 75 bucks on craigslist would be a nice addition to my XBMC collection.

So, I’ve read I the good stuff about CrystalHD chip so I ordered and installed it, upgraded the firmware from Apple to 3.0.2, Patched it with ATV 4.1.2 , loaded all the Crystal bits v26 and loaded the “Current” SVN nightly build (at this point in May the SVN build is suspended since March for stabilization).

XBMC is up and running, I have the option for Crystal enabled under Video, but playback cannot keep up 24 fps on most content while CPU utilization is low. Granted if I play some older AVI’s it seems to play ok, but any 720p or 1080 files in the 1.5gb+ size don’t play fluid and drop frames and cannot keep up 24fps

Even watching the RSS feed across the bottom seems to jerk every now and then, it’s not fluid and neither is the menu gui. Granted it’s rendering more then the XBOX and Crystal HD doesn’t kick in until playback, but I just expected more. Even playing an older 700mb AVI's there's a "micro-jerks" like some background service is locking the GUI thread and XBMC is unaware.

In thinking this might be an older SVN Issue, I have Factory wiped the unit, did all the patching again and now have loaded the SSHCS (rev 30442) instead of the older nightly. I see they have moved the crystal option to a radio button instead of a render method which I have left at Auto, but the frame rate issue still remains.

Most files I’ve been trying are Mt2s and Mp4 containers but so far I’m not impressed and so far all of the content that plays good on the aTv also plays better on the Xbox? I know these files are just wrappers and i'm in the process of inspecting them with g-spot to see if it will shed any light (ie Only h264?). I've also noticed that if I move the videos local on the aTv that performance does seem a little better.

My network seems to be working fine and using speedtest.net can clock 25\5 dn\up across the network and internet. The filezilla upload of a 4gb file from a Windows 7 box, sourced from my video server (another windows 7 box) to the aTV via copied in about 15 minutes.

Looking at the logs, I can see all sorts of things like.

Code:
19:57:42 T:51768320 M:  3010560   DEBUG: CDVDPlayerAudio:: Discontinuity - was:6084336340.048000, should be:6084350141.612187, error:13801.564187
….
19:57:42 T:51766784 M: 13041664   DEBUG: CrystalHD: SetDropState... 1
19:57:42 T:51766784 M: 13041664   DEBUG: CrystalHD: SetDropState... 0
…..
19:58:12 T:51766784 M:  3952640   DEBUG: CDVDPlayerVideo - CDVDMsg::GENERAL_RESYNC(6114566791.666667, 0)
19:58:12 T:51766784 M:  3948544    INFO: CDVDPlayerVideo - Stillframe left, switching to normal playback
…..
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  2822144   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 51
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  3121152   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 52
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  2854912   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 53
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  2887680   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 54
20:01:07 T:53542400 M:  6148096   DEBUG: CrystalHD: Added a new Buffer, ReadyListCount: 55
...

I know everything is in a complete state of flux right now and the OSX\Apple is't heavily tested, but has anyone seen anything like this?

Much thanks in advance for taking the time to read and reply, and much thanks to the entire XBMC team for all the hard work over the years.

Regards,
Mike

best performance is under linux ( atv(linux) ), see http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW...he_AppleTV
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#3
Would there be an easier way some day to get linux onto Apple TV?
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#4
reddeath Wrote:Would there be an easier way some day to get linux onto Apple TV?

One can always wish Smile Right now -> http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW...he_AppleTV is the simple way.
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#5
I'm just after following the mentioned guide and I have to say it can be easier.

Many thanks Scott. You are the Man!
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#6
davilla Wrote:best performance is under linux ( atv(linux) ), see http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=HOW...he_AppleTV

How much of an improvement is it, with respect to menu and 720p playback?
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#7
xbmc old school Wrote:How much of an improvement is it, with respect to menu and 720p playback?

It's better. The menus are more responsive. RAM usage seems better so it can store more images without reloading them. It will output 1080p. The memory leak isn't in that driver code (not sure if that's been fixed on OSX). And you end up with a full OS instead of just a menu setup. Smile

The only downside is it's not "easy" to install. It takes a bit more know-how to get it installed, running, and configured. The existing walk-throughs are pretty thorough, at this point, if you don't meander outside of them.
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#8
I feel like I should step up and say my 720p content plays great. Granted, the first 10-20 seconds are often jumpy while things er..get settled..for lack of a better technical description. I frequently stream 720p mkv files in the 4-8gb range - over wireless N. I have never tried 1080p content so I can't comment on that. Sometimes the atv will show a buffering screen but that's usually only if someone else is on the network doing something bandwidth-y.

On very few occasions I've had the machine freeze up and only a hard boot will cure it - but I attribute that to never turning it off. Also, a few times I've rebooted the router and felt like things got better. I always thought that the linux option mostly helped the gui speed. I keep fanart off so it doesn't feel too bad for me.

I'm using launcher 2.4 and the Crystal Drivers r26 and SVN28256.

Perhaps it's the files specifically? I see you didn't post a mediainfo on the file(s) in question.
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#9
Scott (et al)

I will try the full blown ubuntu install – else, I guess I will look at some Zotac boxes looking forward. Smile

“Reddeath” and “docentore”:
I agree they look a bit intimidating, but I haven’t gone through the steps so I can comment except for “Welcome to the Edge” we love living here Smile

“xbmc old school” :
First question I had as well , “how much better?” glad to hear that it’s a worth with thing to do – thanks “dan1son”

“Thnmnt” - this is exactly what I have been seeing – especially the first 10-20 sec, thanks for “stepping up” I know I’m not alone.

I know XBMC has got to get beyond the XBOX, just shame it is\was such a stable platform and inexpensive. Mac mini is about 600.00(+HDMI convertes), Zotac is about 400.00(after memory & HD), iTv about 230.00(+Crystal card) when you can pick up an XBOX for 50 bucks (used granted) but the “Wow! Factor” of turning the “antiquated xbox” into a Media powerhouse is priceless!

Thank you all for your comments, I’m going to follow the instructions and install Linux on the iTV and see if it’s a worthwhile platform to leverage especially in regard to the newer PVR bits which is what’s motivating me to move beyond xbox.

Regards,
Mike Pisano
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#10
"thnmnt":
XBMC 9.11
Launcher 3.2.4
XBMC SVN r28256
CrystalHD r26
OS Darwin 8.8.2 kernel (operating ram is 256MB with 17MB remaining)

I'm SMB'n over a wireless G bridge. I don't think that is the issue though.

I agree i got an old xbox for 50 bux. The guy i got it from saw the post hack setup and wanted one. lol. snooze/loose. I agree also with looking at the other itx box setups, the apple tv is still the better deal once the development follows. It's a matter of patients.

"Dan1son":
Ya i saw the instructions and am a bit weary. I don't want to ruin the set up I have. But if the improvement is substantial enough then maybe. I did the basic apple tv hack unassisted.
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#11
who's on linux please reply:

there are NO shutters AT ALL? not in the start, middle or "in 20 minutes or so"? it would be a crucial reason.

and two: can i set 720p (that's my TV max resolution) having running linux on atv?
Reply
#12
grey Wrote:who's on linux please reply:

there are NO shutters AT ALL? not in the start, middle or "in 20 minutes or so"? it would be a crucial reason.

and two: can i set 720p (that's my TV max resolution) having running linux on atv?

There are stutters occasionally. At the beginning of the first playback (subsequent playbacks start fine). And every so often during playback... I'd say maybe every 30-45 minutes; a simple pause/resume fixes it.

Linux will output whatever resolution you need. It should realize your TV supports 720p and use that.

If you're going the ubuntu route, I'd recommend running XUbuntu and not the full Gnome UI. And even then, use xbmc-standalone so you don't get a UI environment at all. XUbuntu will be there if you feel the need to web browse or anything else. The full Gnome doesn't handle 256meg of ram very well.
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#13
i wouldn't need a GUI whatsoever on aTV.

well, if there are some stutters (little, but exist) i don't really see the point of going the linux way... thanks for prompt reply.

anyway, i'll do an youtube search to see some videos of xbmc experience when more ram is available for it.
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#14
dan1son Wrote:There are stutters occasionally. At the beginning of the first playback (subsequent playbacks start fine). And every so often during playback... I'd say maybe every 30-45 minutes; a simple pause/resume fixes it.

Linux will output whatever resolution you need. It should realize your TV supports 720p and use that.

If you're going the ubuntu route, I'd recommend running XUbuntu and not the full Gnome UI. And even then, use xbmc-standalone so you don't get a UI environment at all. XUbuntu will be there if you feel the need to web browse or anything else. The full Gnome doesn't handle 256meg of ram very well.

Is there a guide for setting up Xubuntu on atv?
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#15
basht Wrote:Is there a guide for setting up Xubuntu on atv?

Same as the ubuntu install... you just select "Xubuntu" when choosing the variant.
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Apple TV Performance with CrystalHD0