24p and audio sync issues

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torcar Offline
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Location: Norway
Post: #301
@DDDamian:
Very good post and good point. The only purpose of this thread should be to track down the problems and find similarities in setup's etc...

I'll start:

Setup
OS Version: Win 7 Pro 64Bit. Aero Off.
GPU: ATI/AMD HD6450
Video Driver: Catalyst 12.6 Official release
Soundcard: HDMI Output from above
Receiver: NAD M15HD2
Audio Drivers: 7.12.0.7708 - 05.11.2012
XBMC Build: 12.0 Alpha 5 Git:20120825
XBMC Settings: Sync Playback to Display: off, A/V sync method: n/a, Adjust display Refresh Rate to match Video: ON
Container/codecs: MKV, h264, DTS 5.1 1500kb/s, DD 5.1
Muxer Version: N/A. Same deviation on 400+ mkv's
Deviation: Varies between 50-150ms

I added a field for Video driver also. Never know if it might be relevant.

System: XBMC Gotham 13.1, HTPC: AMD 6450 1GB, Intel i5 3470S, 8GB DDR3, ASUS P8H61-M PRO, OCZ SSD Agility 3, NYXboard Hybrid Remote
Surround: NAD M15HD2, NAD M25, B&W 803 Diamond, B&W DB1, B&W HTM4, Pioneer KRP-600A / Panasonic 65VT50
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-08 18:20 by torcar.)
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DDDamian Offline
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Post: #302
@torcar - quite relevent thx Smile

System: XBMC HTPC with HDMI WASAPI & AudioEngine - Denon AVR-3808CI - Denon DVD-5900 Universal Player - Denon DCM-27 CD-Changer
- Sony BDP-S580 Blu-Ray - X-Box 360 - Android tablet wireless remote - 7.1 Streem/Axiom/Velodyne Surround System
If I have been able to help feel free to add to my reputation +/- below - thanks!
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meridius Offline
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Post: #303
Setup
OS Version: - Win 7 x64 Pro
(fresh install)
installed all windows updates,
installed ATI CCC driver
installed motherboard drivers
installed xbmc
installed MSE
installed powerDVD
thats it there is no other software or codecs that have been
installed only the above has been installed and is only used for a HTPC.

GPU: - ATI/AMD HD6570 Passive
Driver version : 12.6 but also has done the same on older drivers

Soundcard: - HDMI output from above GFX Card
Receiver: - Yamaha RX-3900
Audio Drivers: - WASAPI to HDMI AMD ouput (High Definition Audio Device)
XBMC Build: - 10.1

XBMC Video Settings:
Render Method: Auto Detect
Allow hardware Acceleration (DXVA): On
Adjust display Refresh Rate to match Video: On
Sync Playback to Display: Off
A/V sync method: n/a
Allowed error in aspect ratio to minimize black bars: None
Display 4:3 videos as: wide zoom
Video post-Processing: Disabled

XBMC System Settings:
Display Mode: Screen 1
Resolution: 1920x1080
Use a Fullscreen Window Rather Than True Fullscreen: Off
Blank other displays:Off
Vertical Blanck sync : always enabled

Container/codecs: - MKV, h264, DTS 5.1 1500kb/s seems to be all MKVs with audio DTS 5.1. (All MKV files that do not contain DTS 5.1 play perfectly)
Muxer Version: - MKVMerge (all versions i have used so far show this problem)
Deviation: - looks like about -200ms audio lagging

Also I do not get any problems with any lip sync when using 60hz with any mkv even with DTS versions (Adjust display Refresh Rate to match Video: off)

hope this helps as i have also added more info on my settings






(2012-09-08 18:20)torcar Wrote:  @DDDamian:
Very good post and good point. The only purpose of this thread should be to track down the problems and find similarities in setup's etc...

I'll start:

Setup
OS Version: Win 7 Pro 64Bit. Aero Off.
GPU: ATI/AMD HD6450
Video Driver: Catalyst 12.6 Official release
Soundcard: HDMI Output from above
Receiver: NAD M15HD2
Audio Drivers: 7.12.0.7708 - 05.11.2012
XBMC Build: 12.0 Alpha 5 Git:20120825
XBMC Settings: Sync Playback to Display: off, A/V sync method: n/a, Adjust display Refresh Rate to match Video: ON
Container/codecs: MKV, h264, DTS 5.1 1500kb/s, DD 5.1
Muxer Version: N/A. Same deviation on 400+ mkv's
Deviation: Varies between 50-150ms

I added a field for Video driver also. Never know if it might be relevant.

hi mate can you try XBMC Settings:Adjust display Refresh Rate to match Video: OFF

to see what happens this should play all your videos at 60hz, see if you get the same sync problems but remember to put the audio delay back to 0 before you try

cheers
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-08 19:26 by meridius.)
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torcar Offline
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Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 2012
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Location: Norway
Post: #304
@Meridius

If I turn off adjust display refresh rate*** the problem is gone. This problem is as far as i've seen myself only present when playing back 24fps material @24hz.

If you play back 24fps material @60hz the sync is perfect. At least for me...

System: XBMC Gotham 13.1, HTPC: AMD 6450 1GB, Intel i5 3470S, 8GB DDR3, ASUS P8H61-M PRO, OCZ SSD Agility 3, NYXboard Hybrid Remote
Surround: NAD M15HD2, NAD M25, B&W 803 Diamond, B&W DB1, B&W HTM4, Pioneer KRP-600A / Panasonic 65VT50
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meridius Offline
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Post: #305
(2012-09-08 20:21)torcar Wrote:  @Meridius

If I turn off adjust display refresh rate*** the problem is gone. This problem is as far as i've seen myself only present when playing back 24fps material @24hz.

If you play back 24fps material @60hz the sync is perfect. At least for me...


Also fixes it for me so this is a 24hz problem. Hopefully it can be narrowed down as if xbmc can play the movies in sync when using 60hz maybe its some sort of bug in 24hz playback
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liquidskin76 Offline
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Posts: 1,359
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Location: Arkham, Gotham City
Post: #306
(2012-09-08 15:37)DDDamian Wrote:  We're not looking to solve problems outside of XBMC-specific ones, so if you can't test on another player like MPC-HC don't post.

That's really important and something people shouldn't miss. We really need someone else to try and test 24p audio sync (at 24Hz by the way, not 60Hz) with mpc-hc, to backup what i've found. I have the exact problem other are posting about, however i also see it outside of XBMC. We could be blaming XBMC for this, when it's not an XBMC's issue.

Can someone else test on mpc-hc and confirm sync? Wink As i mentioned, you shouldn't need to worry about refresh rate switching in mpc-hc. Just manually set your tv to 24Hz and test a 23.976 BD backup file.

Many thanks Wink

HTPC: Streacom F1C | Asus H87I-Plus ITX | Intel Core i5-4670T | Kingston HyperX SSD | Kingston DDR3 RAM
Home AV: Sony KDL-40HX723 | Sky+HD | Sony BDP-S480 BD Player | Sony STR-DH820 AV Receiver | Sony 5.1 Speaker System | Sony PS3 Slim | Logitech Harmony Touch
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-08 23:21 by liquidskin76.)
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liquidskin76 Offline
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Posts: 1,359
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Post: #307
I've been thinking...

Audio plays at 23.976fps. However as no graphics cards can do spot-on 23.976, video is running slighty slower (as as far as i know, all cards clock under 23.976). Could that difference be enough to cause the a/v sync issue? Would that sync difference stay the same or would it gradually increase as the movie plays?

If that was the case, i would have thought it would be there for all. Not sure why some would have and some not? Would also explain why it's there for other players, like mpc-hc (if someone else can confirm that is!).

Cheers

HTPC: Streacom F1C | Asus H87I-Plus ITX | Intel Core i5-4670T | Kingston HyperX SSD | Kingston DDR3 RAM
Home AV: Sony KDL-40HX723 | Sky+HD | Sony BDP-S480 BD Player | Sony STR-DH820 AV Receiver | Sony 5.1 Speaker System | Sony PS3 Slim | Logitech Harmony Touch
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-08 23:36 by liquidskin76.)
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DDDamian Offline
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Post: #308
@liquidskin76 - awesome mate Smile

@torcar - just for posterity could you edit your post #301 under Deviation: with an audio leading, audio lagging or audio leads & lags? Thx Wink

I've cleaned up the thread a bit...hope the rest of you don't mind but just trying to steer it towards practical solutions. Last I saw we hadn't exceeded our thread-count on MyBB yet, so if anyone wants to start a theory/science thread please do.

System: XBMC HTPC with HDMI WASAPI & AudioEngine - Denon AVR-3808CI - Denon DVD-5900 Universal Player - Denon DCM-27 CD-Changer
- Sony BDP-S580 Blu-Ray - X-Box 360 - Android tablet wireless remote - 7.1 Streem/Axiom/Velodyne Surround System
If I have been able to help feel free to add to my reputation +/- below - thanks!
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-08 23:43 by DDDamian.)
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robl45 Offline
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Post: #309
(2012-09-08 23:18)liquidskin76 Wrote:  
(2012-09-08 15:37)DDDamian Wrote:  We're not looking to solve problems outside of XBMC-specific ones, so if you can't test on another player like MPC-HC don't post.

That's really important and something people shouldn't miss. We really need someone else to try and test 24p audio sync (at 24Hz by the way, not 60Hz) with mpc-hc, to backup what i've found. I have the exact problem other are posting about, however i also see it outside of XBMC. We could be blaming XBMC for this, when it's not an XBMC's issue.

Can someone else test on mpc-hc and confirm sync? Wink As i mentioned, you shouldn't need to worry about refresh rate switching in mpc-hc. Just manually set your tv to 24Hz and test a 23.976 BD backup file.

Many thanks Wink

mpc-hc works beautifully, everything syncs fine. With reclock its perfect, no frame drops, perfect audio sync. without reclock, you get frame drops obviously, but perfect audio sync.

I've been using this for months now as an external player with xbmc since I got fed up with xbmc not working correctly.

for me and I've said it in multiple threads already, audio would sync up fine with h264 sources(when sync to display actually is working) and with avi files it was always off. I started just avoiding avi files when I used xbmc. even so, h264 sources was an exercise in constantly checking the missed counter to see if its increasing. And some people said that didn't matter. Well I watched a movie at the 1 hour mark go off sync all of a sudden, checked the counter and it was increasing, it was not moving before that, I know because I used to check every few minutes to make sure it was solid.

(2012-09-08 23:35)liquidskin76 Wrote:  I've been thinking...

Audio plays at 23.976fps. However as no graphics cards can do spot-on 23.976, video is running slighty slower (as as far as i know, all cards clock under 23.976). Could that difference be enough to cause the a/v sync issue? Would that sync difference stay the same or would it gradually increase as the movie plays?

If that was the case, i would have thought it would be there for all. Not sure why some would have and some not? Would also explain why it's there for other players, like mpc-hc (if someone else can confirm that is!).

Cheers

thats the point of sync video to display, its supposed to redo the audio to keep it in sync like reclock does. I mentioned this before but no one implemented it and I don't have the skills to implement it. But in the OSD it shows refresh as 24hz even though my refresh is 23.97542. Reclock was doing that too and not working when it was set to take the refresh from directdraw, when I changed it to direct3d it got the correct refresh rate and worked correctly.
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-09 19:00 by robl45.)
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liquidskin76 Offline
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Post: #310
@robl45,

How's your audio setup? Are bitstreaming hd audio, decoding to pcm on the fly, or have you converted it to flac or something before hand?

If flac or something else before hand, I can create something similar and test the same.

Thanks for helping out!

Cheers

HTPC: Streacom F1C | Asus H87I-Plus ITX | Intel Core i5-4670T | Kingston HyperX SSD | Kingston DDR3 RAM
Home AV: Sony KDL-40HX723 | Sky+HD | Sony BDP-S480 BD Player | Sony STR-DH820 AV Receiver | Sony 5.1 Speaker System | Sony PS3 Slim | Logitech Harmony Touch
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robl45 Offline
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Post: #311
(2012-09-09 22:41)liquidskin76 Wrote:  @robl45,

How's your audio setup? Are bitstreaming hd audio, decoding to pcm on the fly, or have you converted it to flac or something before hand?

If flac or something else before hand, I can create something similar and test the same.

Thanks for helping out!

Cheers

currently mpc is setup with lav video and audio, no bitstreaming using madvr video processor and reclock set to ac3 encode. this also worked fine with ffdshow audio decoder. just using default mpc-hc with evr renderer and ffdshow, it still worked fine for audio/video sync but the reclock solved the frame drops.
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steelman1991 Offline
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Post: #312
For heavens sake rob do yourself a favour and at least have a read at the previous posts before posting - "it just doesn't work" and your assumptions why.

In post #300 DDDamian asked for specific information - so far you've given very little - if you are going to assist at least provide the minimum information the dev asks for - it was only 2 pages back.
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robl45 Offline
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Post: #313
i've read many many pages of this thread, and I did provide the information on mpc-hc that was asked for.
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steelman1991 Offline
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Post: #314
Did you even read post #300? - suggest you have another read. Mate I can't do an awful lot more for you - you'll need to provide the details requested I can't. I dont know your system specs
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-09 23:59 by steelman1991.)
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robl45 Offline
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Post: #315
OS Version:win 7 64bit
GPU: GT430 Nvidia
Video Driver:8.17.12.9053
Soundcard:Realtek on board High Definition
Receiver:Pioneer VSX3300
Audio Drivers:6.0.1.6343
XBMC Build:Eden Beta 1
XBMC Settings:sync to display drop/dupe audio, adjust refresh to display
Container/codecs:default xbmc
Muxer Version:
Deviation:
(2012-09-09 23:54)steelman1991 Wrote:  Did you even read post #300? - suggest you have another read. Mate I can't do an awful lot more for you - you'll need to provide the details requested I can't. I dont know your system specs

you might try laying off the attitude, just saying.
(This post was last modified: 2012-09-10 00:01 by robl45.)
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