[froggit]

Take a look at the Yamaha RX-V367, it has 4 HDMI & 2 Component inputs but won't upconvert the component to HDMI so you will have to run 2 sets of cables if you need to use these inputs. It doesn't decode the newer HD codecs, but it does accept PCM so if you're Bluray player can do the decoding you'll be fine.

Really good bang for your buck receiver if you need the 4 HDMI ins over the Denon's 3. This review steps through the basic features: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/recei...rx-v367-fl

Thanks for that Cray, I'll take a look at that Yamaha model.

[froggit]

Yamaha or Denon for my money.

Make sure you get one with dynamic volume & dynamic multe Eq - Yamaha have a different name for it, but they're essential features.

Basically what they do is room correction (based on measurements made with the included mic.), and they used this data to create excellent dynamics and surround effect at more realistic volumes that most of us use in the home. Also, the dynamic volume looks ahead at the signal and stops things like commericals etc from suddenly jumping up in volume.

It sounds like a whole lot of interfering with the signal, but it's very very effective (and I say that as a bit of purist two channel snob when it comes to music) - it just makes the movie experience way more comfortable. Movies are mastered for 'reference volumes' which are stupidly stupidly loud, and without these features the mix never sound right at lower volumes.

Done right, you never really notice it except for it making everything sound natural, nice, and easy on the ears - no volume monitoring required and easy to hear vocals, it's great!

The Denon setup is a bit painful (interface is clunky) but to my taste the results are slightly better than with the Yamahas. And ocne you have ir right you can basically leave it that way forever unless your setup changes significantly (really, your room/furniture, not so much your equipment as they all send basically the same digital signal).

Thanks for the info bossanova808, that sounds exactly what I need. Within the Denon AVR-1611 I think this feature is built in, and is called Audyssey, IIRC.

Have a look here for the AVR-1611, under the 'Auto Room EQ with Audyssey MultEQ XT', and 'Auto Room EQ':
http://denon.co.uk/uk/Product/Pages/Prod...d9cd446121

[froggit]

BTW, I was taking a look at the specs of some of these AV Receivers and I saw power consumption listed as something like 360W or 460W, which seems a huge amount of power to use.

Is this really how much these devices use, or is it worst case scenario when playing something at full volume?

Is it more typical that with normal use, an AV receiver would use far less power?

[froggit]

So, to further refine my needs, based on info above so far:

1. I don't care at all for having 3D
2. At least 3 or 4 HDMI inputs would be good
3. 5.1 sound is all I need, so forget anything greater than this
4. As cheap as possible, but not nasty
5. Dynamic volume & dynamic multi Eq (Audyssey MultEQ etc)
6. Last year's model is fine, as long as it meets the above requirements

It looks like I'm beginning to lose some cheapness and gain some nice features...

My preferred model, from what I've seen so far, is the Denon AVR-1611.

Now then, what about video upscaling. Is this a 'must have' feature or not? Can this be done within XBMC (running on Linux with ION) or on the AV Receiver, or is this a stupid question?

[poofyhairguy]

Now then, what about video upscaling. Is this a 'must have' feature or not?

Not. Any decent XBMC box outputs at 1080p, no scaling needed.

[froggit]

Not. Any decent XBMC box outputs at 1080p, no scaling needed.

Good, so I can save money by buying an AV Receiver without video upscaling capabilities.

What do you think of the Denon AVR-1611 ?
It seems OK to me, but I'd appreciate someone more knowledgable on these devices to give an opinion.

[cray-]

The Denon AVR-1611(USD$399) looks great, for the extra money you get a 4th HDMI port over the 3 in the AVR-591(USD$349). I would argue that it ticks all your boxes except: 4. As cheap as possible, but not nasty

The Yamaha RX-V367(USD$259) is the entry level model at a much lower price point, all you're missing is HD audio decoding and ARC (allows you to feed the audio from your TV's built in tuner back through the same HDMI cable as it's input and saves you running an extra optical cable, not a big deal).

The Yamaha RX-V467(USD$379) compares more with the Denon's, it has both the missing features of the RX-V367.

Now, regarding the Audyssey style microphone setup, Yamaha call their version YPAO (Yamaha Parametric Acoustic Optimiser). Apparently the US market RX-V367 doesn't have YPAO but the Australian model does. The European model I'm not sure about, might be worth checking out if that's where you are.

So, if you're in the US and want Audyssey/YPAO, you're going to have to pay extra for the Denon or the higher model Yamaha. If you're elsewhere in the world you might get lucky. Good luck.

[pecinko]

My preferred model, from what I've seen so far, is the Denon AVR-1611.

Here, Denon 1611 costs the same as Onkyo TX-SR608 B.

I was also considering Onkyo 508 as a cheaper option. In either case, probably coupled with Jamo C 405 HCS 3 B (+subwoofer).

[bossanova808]

I think HD audio decoding is a good idea - with the upcoming audioengine branch looking likely to offer hd audio, it would be a shame to get a receiver that can't support it.

Video upscaling is irrelevant with respect to XBMC - XBMC doesn't offer resolution switching, it does all its own scaling, and I am pretty sure this is how it seems likely to say - I remember bobo1on1 or elupus talking about it somewhere and them saying it was unlikely. So your output will be fixed at 1080 with switchable refresh rate.

The 1611 looks good if you don't plan on ever having 7.1 (which, lets face it, does not really fit many rooms in a practical way). I'd avoid the 1311 (no dynamic EQ). The 1911 is probably overkill if 7.1 doesn't matter (and you don't need/want a second zone).

3D, I agree, is just not important indeed quite frankly I think it's a white elephant - totally manufacturer driven (what can we do to sell more tvs now everyone has a big flat panel??) - not consumer driven.

I love my Denon's sound quality and I am slightly less impressed with the Yamaha from this perspective but I haven't done any real A/B and that probably had more to do with speakers than anything else (what are you hooking up - I have KEF 3005SEs with the two fronts swapped out for some Sonus Faber Concertino Domus thingies - in all, this is amazingly good sound but kind of a silly way of doing things - the Sonus Fabers are overkill really but I had them 'spare' after moving from a multi level house to a big, but flat house).

The Denons and Yamahas always seem to top the tests above the Onkyo/Harman Kardon etc from what I could see when I was buying (about 2 yrs ago).

5.1 is every bit as important as video - it's a huge step forward in putting a smile on your dial once you have it all working well and tuned.

[froggit]

The Denon AVR-1611(USD$399) looks great, for the extra money you get a 4th HDMI port over the 3 in the AVR-591(USD$349). I would argue that it ticks all your boxes except: 4. As cheap as possible, but not nasty

The Yamaha RX-V367(USD$259) is the entry level model at a much lower price point, all you're missing is HD audio decoding and ARC (allows you to feed the audio from your TV's built in tuner back through the same HDMI cable as it's input and saves you running an extra optical cable, not a big deal).

The Yamaha RX-V467(USD$379) compares more with the Denon's, it has both the missing features of the RX-V367.

Now, regarding the Audyssey style microphone setup, Yamaha call their version YPAO (Yamaha Parametric Acoustic Optimiser). Apparently the US market RX-V367 doesn't have YPAO but the Australian model does. The European model I'm not sure about, might be worth checking out if that's where you are.

So, if you're in the US and want Audyssey/YPAO, you're going to have to pay extra for the Denon or the higher model Yamaha. If you're elsewhere in the world you might get lucky. Good luck.

Thanks a lot for the info cray. Yes, I thought the AVR-1611 looked suitable for what I want, but you're right that it's not the cheapest. But I'd prefer to pay a little more and get something that I won't later regret buying.

[froggit]

Here, Denon 1611 costs the same as Onkyo TX-SR608 B.

I was also considering Onkyo 508 as a cheaper option. In either case, probably coupled with Jamo C 405 HCS 3 B (+subwoofer).

I haven't even looked at 5.1 speakers yet -- I'll leave that to another thread

[froggit]

I think HD audio decoding is a good idea - with the upcoming audioengine branch looking likely to offer hd audio, it would be a shame to get a receiver that can't support it.

Video upscaling is irrelevant with respect to XBMC - XBMC doesn't offer resolution switching, it does all its own scaling, and I am pretty sure this is how it seems likely to say - I remember bobo1on1 or elupus talking about it somewhere and them saying it was unlikely. So your output will be fixed at 1080 with switchable refresh rate.

The 1611 looks good if you don't plan on ever having 7.1 (which, lets face it, does not really fit many rooms in a practical way). I'd avoid the 1311 (no dynamic EQ). The 1911 is probably overkill if 7.1 doesn't matter (and you don't need/want a second zone).

3D, I agree, is just not important indeed quite frankly I think it's a white elephant - totally manufacturer driven (what can we do to sell more tvs now everyone has a big flat panel??) - not consumer driven.

I love my Denon's sound quality and I am slightly less impressed with the Yamaha from this perspective but I haven't done any real A/B and that probably had more to do with speakers than anything else (what are you hooking up - I have KEF 3005SEs with the two fronts swapped out for some Sonus Faber Concertino Domus thingies - in all, this is amazingly good sound but kind of a silly way of doing things - the Sonus Fabers are overkill really but I had them 'spare' after moving from a multi level house to a big, but flat house).

The Denons and Yamahas always seem to top the tests above the Onkyo/Harman Kardon etc from what I could see when I was buying (about 2 yrs ago).

5.1 is every bit as important as video - it's a huge step forward in putting a smile on your dial once you have it all working well and tuned.

Thanks a lot for the info bossanova808 regarding HD audio decoding & video upscaling.

And as you've pointed out, I pretty much eliminated the 1311 due to no dynamic EQ and the 1911 for being more than I needed (7.1 etc) and more expensive.

It's also good to hear that you're impressed with the Denon's sound quality.

I will create a new thread later to ask about 5.1 speakers as this is a new area I'm clueless about... so much to learn

[mlbblitz]

denon and onkyo, dedicated audio manufacturers

Yamaha, build bikes and boat motors i couldn't buy one based on that sorry. But i love their bikes.... sorry to offend anyone

[cray-]

denon and onkyo, dedicated audio manufacturers

Yamaha, build bikes and boat motors i couldn't buy one based on that sorry. But i love their bikes.... sorry to offend anyone

"sorry", "sorry to offend", are you really? Why troll then? It's your smug opinion which you're trying to pass as fact which is offensive.

I fail to see how being part of a multinational conglomeration has any bearing on the quality of the goods produced. Akai are another company dedicated to audio manufacture and their products are rubbish, for various other reasons.

I realise that audio & visual reproduction are an entirely subjective matter but I think you'll find that that Yamaha AV receivers are fairly well regarded in terms of features, performance & value in this end of the market.

You are free to buy whatever you want, but let's leave this kind of misinformation & douchebaggery to the poor deluded souls in the "audiophile" forums shall we.

[mlbblitz]

it's an opinion don't like it buy what you want, it's what i think and if you haven't got your own brain to look at the products and listen to what makes your ears tickle, then go with what everyone else buys. You did say you are free to buy what you want..... Why criticise my opinion.