[rausch101]

Great job spoco2 on providing what I think it a very accurate and common first time user experience. And you didn't even sound like a jerk, nice job

* It would seem I need to tell it to scan my media into the library... why wouldn't that be on by default? Who would want their media in there without having it in the library? Even with there being valid reasons for not wanting to, the DEFAULT should be that it scans it.

I think as an alternative to this, there should be a prompt after you've added a source that asks you if you want to add and scan this media to your library right now. Much in the way that when you now download a skin via the Addons manager it asks you if you want to switch to that skin. I think this would be a great addition.

The option to add your sources and set everything up should be coded into the installer for first time users.

Another solid option

[darkscout]

How does the installer take you to the Wiki?

You either install via command line (apt-get install...)
You install via Live.
The Mac version is just a *.app bundle
I don't know how Windows is done.

Thousands (hundreds of thousands, millions? the forum has 60,862 alone...) of users have figured out how to install and use XBMC on XBOX, Linux, AppleTV, Mac, Windows and even some hackers on ARM machines (and who knows what else we're not told about).

There is a law of diminishing returns....
It'll take 10 hours of work to get 20% of users happy
50 hours to get 50%
100 hours to get 75%
500 hours to get 80%
50000 hours to get 90%
and 100,000 hours to get 99%.

Where do the developers stop working on new features and start working on making those extra % of users happy?

There comes a point when I show off all my toys (XBMC, projector, surround sound other misc projects) to my friends where I point some of them to the Wiki or Instructables and I explain, in so many words, to the others they're just too dumb to figure it out.

[waldo22]

IMO, when you add a source there should be a pop up asking you if you now want to scan this source (and set content if needed).

I think this is right-on. I didn't realize at first that you need to set content after adding a source.

My $0.02.

-Wes

[rausch101]

I think this is right-on. I didn't realize at first that you need to set content after adding a source.

My $0.02.

-Wes

Whoops, didn't see this post...

Completely agree

[bluenote]

I've been on a journey myself of auditioning HTPC software, and I've landed with XBMC.

Thinking back to the first time I installed it, yes, not everything was as obvious as it should be. And its valuable for old time users of XBMC to hear that every once in a while, IMO, because its really, really, hard to put yourself in the shoes of a first time user after you have become experienced.

But I also just dumped mediaportal to come to XBMC, and let me tell you, that was a WAY worse experience. And the rewards at the end of it weren't as nice, either.

I think it comes down to, HTPC's are complicated. The only one that might not be, is maybe VMC, and I can't speak to that because I've never run it seriously.

If you accept the fact that you're going to have to google around when doing this stuff, it'll go a lot easier. And, as they say, patches are welcome. The wiki needs work too, so perhaps you could contribute that way.

Anyways. You can have my XBMC when you pry it from my cold, dead, hands.

[branlr]

I don't disagree with some of the points made here, but I disagree with the presentation of these suggestions as showcasing something negative--just because you have an idea to make something better doesn't mean that it is bad.

Also, one of the great things about XBMC is the shear number of options and features--and with that come some inherent complexity.

If your argument is "other media centers are easier to set up"--well, that's fine--go use them. But, good luck trying to make them as great in the end as XBMC. I tried using 7MC, but every single little modification becomes a monumental hack job.

Take the plugins in XBMC for example. Is it frustrating that plugin developers sometimes stop supporting a great plugin that you like, and that each plugin has it's own developer with a REAL LIFE that can sometimes prevent him from providing updates and support? Yes! it sucks that the plugins break!

But then you remember that the only reason such great and highly specified plugins exist at all is because XBMC has empowered its users to create their own ways of accessing all of the content on the internet!

XBMC rules! The end! If you wanna make suggestions, great--In my experience, the forum is very responsive and willing to listen/help--but I don't want the simplicity of other media centers at the expense of XBMC's flexibility.

[Arkady]

A technically knowledgeable user shouldn't have to go read a Wiki/XBMC forums/Google to install and use an application.

Most of the people in these forums will have no problem reading up on an application to get it working they way they want to. The other 90% of people who download it, will install it, tinker for a few minutes and will give up.
It's the same difference as Windows vs Linux. Some might be technically versed to get Linux working, but the vast majority will use Windows because it's easier to use.

If XBMC is to spread beyond the highly technical users, a major push should be done towards ease of use. And that includes the very valid problems the OP is having.



Of course, the XBMC admins/creators may not want to focus on expanding the user base, making my point moot.

[cosmicr]

Its really not difficult to setup. Dont waste time adding a wizard for the idiots who can't do it, spend that time improving and adding new features.

For those who can't set it up, then XBMC is not for them. They can look at Boxee or something else.

If you don't know how to ride a bike do you complain to the bike makers? Or if you don't know how to swim do you complain to the pool owners? Its the same deal for XBMC, all the stuff is there, its intuitive enough for 90% of users, if you struggle, ask for help, dont whinge, or go back to Mediaportal.

[branlr]

Its really not difficult to setup. Dont waste time adding a wizard for the idiots who can't do it, spend that time improving and adding new features.

For those who can't set it up, then XBMC is not for them. They can look at Boxee or something else.

If you don't know how to ride a bike do you complain to the bike makers? Or if you don't know how to swim do you complain to the pool owners? Its the same deal for XBMC, all the stuff is there, its intuitive enough for 90% of users, if you struggle, ask for help, dont whinge, or go back to Mediaportal.

Right on. This mentality of "how dare you make me LEARN something in order to get something exceptionally amazing--and free, by the way" is really something else. I understand wanting things to be intuitive, but setup can't always be intuitive. USING XBMC is VERY intuitive.

I don't believe the goal is for XBMC to be in everybody's house. In fact, that really wouldn't benefit XBMC too much at all, seeing as how it is-- you know, FREE!

If you want a product, go buy one. There are so many options that are like what you all are describing! Why do you want to change XBMC?

But whatever--you play Beethoven, and people complain that it's not Lynyrd Skynyrd. Never-minding the fact that those two things are completely different, they want things to be as simple as possible. They'll take the simplicity over functionality, beauty, and innovation any day.


One last thing-- It has come time in this thread to mention, once again--this program is open source. If you don't like it, you have as much power to change it as any body else in the WORLD.

[darkscout]

A technically knowledgeable user shouldn't have to go read a Wiki/XBMC forums/Google to install and use an application.

Most of the people in these forums will have no problem reading up on an application to get it working they way they want to. The other 90% of people who download it, will install it, tinker for a few minutes and will give up.
It's the same difference as Windows vs Linux. Some might be technically versed to get Linux working, but the vast majority will use Windows because it's easier to use.

Of course, the XBMC admins/creators may not want to focus on expanding the user base, making my point moot.

Burn LiveCD to CD.
Reboot using LiveCD.
There is no Step 3.

If you're too stupid to figure that out I worry about the safety of those that surround you. Sure if you want to do fancier stuff there is more to do. But that goes with everything.

[RockDawg]

What is wrong with some of you people?!?! The OP had a somewhat difficult time setting up sources and the library. Some of you didn't have any problems figuring it out. That doesn't make you right or smart or the OP wrong and dumb. Who here hasn't, at some point in time or another, struggled with something that many others found easy? It's amazing how snobby some people can get once they realize they figured out something that other(s) couldn't.

The fact of the matter is that XBMC could be more user friendly in this regard (notice I didn't say should be!). Why not have a wizard type setup or a one-time popup explaining the setup of libraries on first run? If the mantra is to go look into the wiki or forums for help on how to do that, then it makes sense to put that text within the program. You know a little "click here for help on how setup sources and enable media libraries" or something. I'm not suggesting the whole wiki be put within the software or anything like that, but I'd imagine 99% of all XBMC users are going to be setting up media sources so that specific topic would seem to make sense.

Someone mentioned to check the forums because they are awesome and helpful and while I would tend to agree most of the time, a look at this very thread also shows that these very forums can be quite abrasive and inhospitable at times. The OP has endured everything from being called stupid to implications of being lazy to snide comments about needing GPS to find the bathroom. All because they had an opinion that didn't mesh with some others here on this board. But yah, these forums are a much better and more helpful resource than a wizard or popup within the program! Right!!!

[RockDawg]

Burn LiveCD to CD.
Reboot using LiveCD.
There is no Step 3.

If you're too stupid to figure that out I worry about the safety of those that surround you. Sure if you want to do fancier stuff there is more to do. But that goes with everything.

While I realize it can be hardware dependent and therefore different for everybody, it's not been quite that simple every time I setup XBMC Live. I have had to do these extra steps on both my boxes over many different versions of XBMC just to get analog sounds to work (MP3's and nav sounds which are as basic as it gets):

1. Create a .asoundrc file with the right contents in the proper location
2. Stop XBMC Live from running. this involved quite a bit of searching on my part to find the command to run to do this.
3. Run another command to perform a speaker test.
4. If you hear sound stop the test. This also took a bit to figure out how to stop.
5. Delete the .asoundrc file
6. Reboot the system.

And that is just to get some basic sound functions to work. Granted, none of that was overly difficult, but much more involved compared to the two simple steps you listed. Especially when you consider the time involved in finding out how fix it the first time I ran into it.

And that's not even getting into trying to get Live to wake from suspend via a USB keyboard or remote. Something that is not exactly a fancy function and is something a lot of people want to do versus leaving the box running all the time. The steps to get that up and running are 10 times what I posted above for analog sounds.

Again, this is not to gripe or complain about XBMC in any way. This is only to demonstrate that things aren't always as neat and tidy as darkscout implies in his attempt to belittle the OP and anyone else who has run into problems.

[spoco2]

Well, this is quite awesome, I've glad I've created such great discussion. Even though it's sad to see the usual comments found in any one of these types of product forums along the lines of 'man you're stupid, piss off, this is free software, what do you expect' etc. etc.

I probably will stick with it and try to get it working, but I wanted to point out how it has some serious interface let downs for a new user as well.

Just last night I decided to try to get it to scrape all the info for the tv shows again, so went into the videos folder, pressed 'C', select 'go to root' then said 'rescan media' or whatever it is... 'update library' maybe.

Anyway, it seemed to sit there with a message at the top of the screen for ages saying 'downloading media info' or the like... just sat there, no progress indication, no sign it was doing anything at all.

After doing other things for 10 minutes I came back and it was still there. So I exited the screen, came back into videos and it went away and the tv shows seemed to be just as bad as they were before.

Now, I'm not adverse to fault finding, but this would be a WHOOOOOOOLE lot easier if there was a single page to go to in order to see the status of each of your shares and their status regarding being in library mode or not and whether it thinks the library is up to date or whether there was an error...

Still... I put up these experiences because they are ones I will forget about as I fiddle with it more, and if I end up using it as my primary system then I will probably end up not being able to remember how hard it was to setup to begin with (as I'm sure is my case with MediaPortal).

It's important, if you want your product to be able to be used by the largest number of people, to remember what it's like at the start, and how to make that experience better, and more inviting, and more pleasant.

The Team member who says 'code it' because this is Open Source is, however, one of those who forgets how much free time you need in order to work out how a product works and then code up something that works with it, then test it and support it... I barely have time to setup a htpc let alone code the software that goes on it!

And for those who think that I'm an idiot... how many of you were programming computers at 7 years old in the early 80s? And today code for a living? And I build visual interfaces, so get sad when I see a potentially great product let down by what is essentially just an interface decision rather than a coding challenge.

[dteirney]

spoco2, thank-you for your frank feedback on your experience with setup of XBMC. I too would like to see some effort put into this area after the Dharma release (which is now feature frozen).

Below is an excerpt from one of my posts in the internal team forum (which only team members have access to) regarding just one of the areas I'd like to see improved for the Eden release.

"Provide, an easier mechanism to setup sources and content types. I've only ever setup sources using sources.xml because it was way faster than typing with the WiiRemote. However, having looked at this with "fresh" eyes while trying to do a setup screen for MythTV, the "Add Source and then define Content Type" part of XBMC is hard to explain to someone. The adding of new sources doesn't seem to pimp the most typical integration options. I'm not sure what a great solution might be right now, but it feels like it needs some time spent on it. XBMC integrates with some amazing things, but many of those things are hidden."

Once I've completed the MythTV PVR Addon (still a long way off), hopefully I will be able to contribute to some improvements directly. If anyone else wants to start some work, that would also be welcomed with open arms.

[dteirney]

@FishOil. Grow up would you. If you've got nothing of value to add, don't say anything. Any more silliness and I'll delete any further posts by you in this thread.

Updated: I had a bad day at work so have already deleted some of the original posts.