Building a HTPC with HDMI 1.3 / 1.4 that support 3D output to a 3DTV (3D Television)?
#1
Question 
I recently bought a Samsung 3D tv, and think it's fitting to also update my htpc accordingly, but there seems to be very little information on the topic. Thats why i'm trying my luck to ask around here.

What hardware would be required (not for gaming etc, pure movies), and does XBMC actually allow 3D playback? Is there a catch or limitations? and has anyone actually done it?

Thanks in advance.
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#2
I can help with this, as I got a Samsung 3D TV.

As it is, XBMC in no OS can playback full 1080p 3D content. The only thing that can is a Nvidia GT430 on Windows 7 plus either PowerDVD or TMT.

What XBMC CAN easily so is playback 720p 3D that is available on the net called "half sbs" files. When you play these files you can force the TV into SBS 3D mode which then works well. These files play even on regular ION systems in any OS.The only problem is that the menus are not in 3D.

Better 3D support in XBMC isn't in the cards anytime soon. If you want more (such as a 3D compatible interface) you have to look at solutions like Boxee...

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#3
Can you rip your own 3D blurays and playback (whether in Power DVD or TMT) from a server? If so, how big are the files (I'm assuming you couldn't compress them or anything)?
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#4
ECEC Wrote:Can you rip your own 3D blurays and playback (whether in Power DVD or TMT) from a server? If so, how big are the files (I'm assuming you couldn't compress them or anything)?

Only decent way to do it is to rip the 3D Blu Rays to ISOs, then mount those ISOs in a way that PowerDVD and TMT think its a disk when you want to play them. You end up with ISO files that are full Blu Ray size- like 40gb on average.

I did that when I first got my TV but there is no easy way to make it so you can play the ISOs from a remote easily, and I hate using a mouse and keyboard for my HTPC. If you try to rip the ISOs to a single file you end up just making Half SBS mkvs anyway, as Full SBS mkvs (as in single MKVs that are 1080p 3D) cannot be played back properly no matter what software you use.

After a lot of back and forth viewing I think that 720p 3D (as in half SBS files) when they are done right are like 95% as good as the full disks without any of that ISO mounting trouble. DirectTV is completely happy pushing 3D content at that res, so I am not gonna kill myself for better.

Plus there is the whole issue that most of the best 3D titles (Avatar, How to Train Your Dragon, etc.) are only available with certain 3D tvs. If you did just buy a 3D Samsung (and not a 3D Panasonic) you don't even have the ABILITY to buy the Avatar 3D disk separately to play on your Samsung till 2012 (unless you pay a couple hundred on ebay)!!!!! While every 3D movie released on Blu Ray so far is on the Usenet in Half SBS form waiting to get played.

I am skirting close to the forum rules here so I won't tell you HOW to get those files in the open (PM me for details), but suffice to say that the only happy 3D TV owners are those who are super rich (and can buy a $300 Avatar disk) and those who pirate...

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#5
poofyhairguy Wrote:I can help with this, as I got a Samsung 3D TV.

As it is, XBMC in no OS can playback full 1080p 3D content. The only thing that can is a Nvidia GT430 on Windows 7 plus either PowerDVD or TMT.

What XBMC CAN easily so is playback 720p 3D that is available on the net called "half sbs" files. When you play these files you can force the TV into SBS 3D mode which then works well. These files play even on regular ION systems in any OS.The only problem is that the menus are not in 3D.

Better 3D support in XBMC isn't in the cards anytime soon. If you want more (such as a 3D compatible interface) you have to look at solutions like Boxee...

Thanks for the info. Already a pleasure to know my current system can handle it.

Though i'm still thinking about upgrading, to create one with lots more HD space. Any recommendations towards the future then? I saw threads about nvidia cards with hdmi 1.4 and such. I bet those work well, but aren't there any mobo's around which have those things integrated?
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#6
Myth Wrote:Though i'm still thinking about upgrading, to create one with lots more HD space. Any recommendations towards the future then? I saw threads about nvidia cards with hdmi 1.4 and such. I bet those work well, but aren't there any mobo's around which have those things integrated?

Two pieces of advice:

1. No, no mobo has HDMI 1.4 support. The only cards that work are Nvidia GT4xx cards. If you are not a gamer the GT430 is best.

2. Think of getting a media server, as you can tell these files are big.

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#7
poofyhairguy Wrote:Only decent way to do it is to rip the 3D Blu Rays to ISOs, then mount those ISOs in a way that PowerDVD and TMT think its a disk when you want to play them. You end up with ISO files that are full Blu Ray size- like 40gb on average.

I did that when I first got my TV but there is no easy way to make it so you can play the ISOs from a remote easily, and I hate using a mouse and keyboard for my HTPC. If you try to rip the ISOs to a single file you end up just making Half SBS mkvs anyway, as Full SBS mkvs (as in single MKVs that are 1080p 3D) cannot be played back properly no matter what software you use.

After a lot of back and forth viewing I think that 720p 3D (as in half SBS files) when they are done right are like 95% as good as the full disks without any of that ISO mounting trouble.

Plus there is the whole issue that most of the best 3D titles (Avatar, How to Train Your Dragon, etc.) are only available with certain 3D tvs. If you did just buy a 3D Samsung (and not a 3D Panasonic) you don't even have the ABILITY to buy the Avatar 3D disk separately to play on your Samsung till 2012 (unless you pay a couple hundred on ebay)!!!!! While every 3D movie released on Blu Ray so far is on the Usenet in Half SBS form waiting to get played.

I am skirting close to the forum rules here so I won't tell you HOW to get those files in the open (PM me for details), but suffice to say that the only happy 3D TV owners are those who are super rich (and can buy a $300 Avatar disk) and those who pirate...

Wow, lots of excellent information here. Thanks! I just bought a Panasonic set, still waiting for it to be delivered. Unfortunately, I didn't have the forsight to buy a 1.4 capable receiver when I upgraded that earlier this year, so I'm limited to plugging in the PS3 directly to the TV and running a separate audio cable. I just started researching making my HTPC 3D capable, so this info will definitely help out. I'm surprised that the GT430 cards are so cheap! Right now Newegg has them at $70!
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#8
ECEC Wrote:Unfortunately, I didn't have the forsight to buy a 1.4 capable receiver when I upgraded that earlier this year, so I'm limited to plugging in the PS3 directly to the TV and running a separate audio cable.

I have a cool piece of info for you then: half SBS files work PERFECTLY on a not 3D compatible receiver.

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#9
poofyhairguy Wrote:I have a cool piece of info for you then: half SBS files work PERFECTLY on a not 3D compatible receiver.

:O No way! That would save me from trying to sell my existing unit for a new one. How does that work?

(also, PM'd you about some unrelated questions).
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#10
ECEC Wrote::O No way! That would save me from trying to sell my existing unit for a new one. How does that work?

Three things separate HDMI 1.4 from HDMI 1.3:

1. Bandwidth- this is why the PS3 (with its HDMI 1.3 port) can't play 3D Blu Rays while also sending HD audio along the HDMI- there is not enough bandwidth. Full 1080p 3D content is actually one 1080p image PER EYE, which means it is double that of regular 2D 1080p.

2. HDCP handshake issues- only HDMI 1.4 devices (and the few compatible HDMI 1.3 devices) have can understand the "this is 3D content" HDCP handshake.

3. Media overlord greed. HDMI 1.4 was a great way to get us to have to re-buy everything.


For half SBS content the first problem doesn't matter because it is only a 720p image for each eye- like Direct TV and Cable Providers offer. The second problem doesn't matter because you manually make your TV go into 3D mode to play half SBS content (I have the process down to a single macro button on my Harmony). The last point doesn't matter because Samsung was nice enough to include the ability to force our TVs into 3D mode without the media overlord's blessing!

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#11
Excellent. I'll order a GT430 card at some point and start testing all this stuff out. A proper media center/HTPC setup is never finished!
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#12
ECEC Wrote:Excellent. I'll order a GT430 card at some point and start testing all this stuff out. A proper media center/HTPC setup is never finished!

As I said, ION level hardware can play Half SBS 3D stuff. So if you already have the TV, give it a shot!

I agree though, a HTPCers work is never done. I built my 9th HTPC this year last weekend myself.

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#13
My goal would be to build a htpc with 4 HD's of 1.5 TB each, set up in raid. That way i got 4.5TB of diskspace, and a safety disk in case one crashes.

I did consider having a seperate media server, but decided to just combine the 2 and just equip my htpc with enough HD's. No specific parts planned yet though, as 4 hd's will make some noise .... . Samsung eco green hd's, passive cooled parts and a good insolated case.

Thanks for the great info so far! I was right to ask here.
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#14
Myth Wrote:4 hd's will make some noise

Which is why I recommend people NEVER combine NASes and HTPCs. You will kill yourself trying to put enough power to play 1080p in the same box as 4HDs while keeping it moderately cool and quiet.

You should really reconsider that decision. You will NEVER get it to work without loud fans. I promise you, I have tried more than once with almost every decent HTPC part on the market.

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#15
To second poofy's opinion, you really should be looking at a media server of some sort. Besides the obvious pros of it being out of the way, you can also set it to host all of your various web services (SAB, uTorrent, Sickbeard, CouchPotato, etc), as well as possibly backup all of your other PCs. I've been using WHS for years and recommend it highly (although the latest version of WHS seems to be kinda lame, the current version is awesome).
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