People need to realize that Linux is NOT windows, it wont work the same, and never will.
Those that grew up with windows such as myself, don't (or didnt in my case) realize how much they take for granted as to how windows works with expected knowledge. Most windows users that are game to try linux at-least know how to install windows drivers, etc, which in reality is a fairly technical thing that they have learnt to do over the years.
When these people move to Linux, they think that it is rubbish, and have a real hard time learning to use it because they expect things to work like windows. You have to un-learn all your windows habits and start learning how a Unix/Posix based computer operates.
Most tutorials on the net SUCK for Linux, they dont explain what the commands are that are in use, and as much as devs like to say that everything is in the man pages, and to RTFM, dont realize that the manuals/documentation has been written by a developer, and a new user has no hope in hell of figuring it out.
To Linux Users: If you are going to make a tutorial, or try to assist someone, dont just tell them what to run/do, explain what your telling them so they understand what they are doing.
To Windows Users: Listen, be patient, and learn about what your being taught, Linux users don't like helping those who are not willing to learn.
Now for those that may think that I am a Windows user/supporter, I am not, I have been using Linux daily for over 10 years now and I develop XBMC on Linux platform, but I did come from a windows background, which made it VERY hard for me to unlearn all the Microsoft crap that is no longer valid.
Be patient, keep your tempers in check, listen, learn and ask lots of questions if you don't understand what you are doing, for all you know you could be running malicious commands.
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Australia, Katoomba
2011-01-12 02:53 Post: #11
I am not scared of SVN - Cutting my hands open on the bleeding edge.
Joined: May 2010
Location: United Kingdom
2011-01-14 01:29 Post: #12
jhsrennie Wrote:If you want XBMC to be an exclusive club then comments like "Let'em learn even if its the hard way" and "their loss" are reasonable.I think my comments have been taken in the wrong context.
Unfortunately, to a certain degree, XBMC is an semi-exclusive club - mainly to people with determination to learn. Do not get me wrong - I was/am a Windows baby - and also posted the 'pulling my hair' out threads (and still do).
For new users, XBMC's forums are huge and finding the correct information through the guess work can be tiring.
But, with a push in the right direction I was able to learn and was determined enough to take full advantage of XBMC as it's meant to be, some of it I'm still learning (and sharing my findings) now.
Most computer users I know, are Home Users and barely know the basics of Microsoft Windows, let alone Linux/XBMC and would give up far too easily. Hence the reason the forum is so stacked with so many requests for help. I've had to setup HTPC's for friends/family members as they do not have a clue.
Mention Linux to anyone with no experience of it, they are not interested as it's 'Open Source' and 'Not as good'...!
So the ultimate question is -
What do you do if they have a low attention span and cannot be taught to fish...?
Point them in the general direction and help along the way, but let them catch their first fish!
Anyway, back on topic!
Archive all the old, out-dated, How-To's and point everyone to the front page of the Wiki!!
Maraschino - Web based HTPC Organiser. Keep track of all your web based programs all in one place.
Home Page - Repo - Bug Tracker - Support Forum.
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: the home of moto
2011-01-14 01:36 Post: #13
Quote:Second...We're talking about an HTPC not the space shuttle.
haha ya no better way for a noob to learn than to blindly stamp off a line and botch there system.... youll learn real fast not to type random shit from people on the internet into your pc
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Chester, UK
2011-01-14 10:39 Post: #14
DejaVu77 Wrote:Anyway, back on topic!
That's what I'd do.
At the moment some of the Wiki articles are out of date due to a lack of volunteers to edit them. However if the Wiki becomes more widely publicised hopefully the articles will be brought up to date.
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Manchester, UK
2011-01-14 12:19 Post: #15
jhsrennie Wrote:That's what I'd do.
It's there a list somewhere of Wiki artciles that need to be updated, or is it just a case of tactical link following in order to find them? Using the Wanted page on the wiki just returns linked articles without a destination.
Joined: May 2005
2011-01-19 00:50 Post: #16
Wooo... many opinions
Be as it might, users learn this the hard way, but many of
the questions coming into the support forums are because of they trying
some old how too's - I've helped a few with just that problem
So something will backfire on us here.
Also, at least giving an honest user the message that this can seriously borc the system is at least a chance we owe the users.....
A good wiki section is a good idea, and i could sure as hell help to check the guides sporadicly and update/adjust if necesary.
Another problem with the how too's is that even though OP is outdated, by scrolling trough like 100's of posts will get you to fixes that others have learned.
PointOfView Nvidia ION Atom 330 - TRANSCEND 2GB DDR2 DIMM 800MHz - G.SKILL 64GB SSD 2.5
Open Elec Beta4 1.95.4XBMC Online Manual - HOW-TO post about a problem in a useful manner - Create/View Bug Report
Setup/Fix correct resolution on XBMC/Ubuntu - Usefull linux terminal commands
Joined: Oct 2008
2011-03-09 13:23 Post: #17
The-Boxhead Wrote:Wooo... many opinions
IF the how to is any good. The op should be strongly encouraged to move the guide to the wiki and maintain it there with the help from the rest of the community. Discussion could continue with the first post or posts pointing to the wiki article.
Also more and stricter moderation in some forums would help, if a discussion goes off topic for pages, or ends up arguing about pointless shit it won't help the signal to noise ratio. Also more faqs at the top of the forums might help as would closing and archiving old and out of date threads and forums. XBMC Announcements for example.