[Malard]

Ok got it thanks, I was just simply looking at the website you first posted and I didn't click through to the main site.

The price is competitive but I'd of liked to have seen it at a lower price point, especially considering I can buy a Lenovo IdeaCentre or ASUS Eee Box that will run other applications all for around the same money or alternatively I can buy an ATV2 for just $99.

$150-250 would be the perfect price range for this device.

Btw, when i refer to 'our' i refer as Pulse-Eight and not as an XBMC Team Member

I'm struggling to find a similar price pointed item from those you mentioned.

So please link it, but I did find one with similar spec but was more expensive, http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/...ID=B529875

Okay it ships with W7, we ship it with OpenELEC (do you really need to run windows under the hood?)

Its got a D410 cpu, our box will ship with a D525

the hard disk will be 320GB (not 250GB as recently advertised) instead of this eee pc having a 160gb, the wifi is integral, not an external aerial, it has spdif which this doesnt (from the spec)

I'm happy to go toe to toe with other products, but find me an identical or near identical spec machine to compare against (and a link please!)

[room312]

I'm struggling to find a similar price pointed item from those you mentioned.

I'm happy to go toe to toe with other products, but find me an identical or near identical spec machine to compare against (and a link please!)

As I said before, I'm not bias towards one device over another, but I'm truly trying to find something similar. And I think I have.

Giada N20-W2231 for $310: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6856176006

Again, I don't have this device, so I'm comparing spec-for-spec.

The differences? The Giada is running DDR2 RAM instead (still 2GB). It has one less USB port. Instead of Mini-DP, it has VGA. No Firewire, but it has eSata (I think this is a key difference). It comes with no OS, but OpenELEC is free. It also comes with a remote, but it's IR. In theory, the Pulse-Eight remote is better, but we won't know until it actually comes out.

The CPU, HDD, and the amount of RAM is all the same. The case is almost as nice as the OpenELEC HTPC case.

What's primarily missing is the dedicated OpenELEC support and not shipping with OpenELEC. Again, different purposes. Different demographic. Speaking of demographic, I think the OpenELEC finds itself in an interesting spot. I think it's supposed to be marketed for "moms"? But moms wouldn't necessarily need a streamer this sophisticated, and paying more than $400 for it? Part of me thinks it's meant for XBMC enthusiasts who want a perfect system without the hassle.

The question is, are these differences worth $100?

With the Lenovo, I also realize you're paying for the brand. Nowadays, it isn't too big of a deal. It's a difference, nonetheless. Giada is still a lesser-known brand, but it's appropriately priced and has an impressive spec-sheet.

I think what will be difficult is finding a device that compares to the OpenELEC HTPC w/ DVD option.

[vikjon0]

I think win7 should not factor into this discussion. If you buy an openELEC htpc a win7 license is not included. Since you don't need it to run openELEC and can't sell it this is not a factor.

eSata - is a factor for many people. Depending on the target consumer it may or may not be important.

DDR3 - Don't know but I guess not a big deal

Remote included - Yes, a big deal.

minidb - perhaps, but all we are asking for right now is HDMI?

1Gbps Ethernet - of course, why buy anything else 2011?

HD - big and soundless is good. Optional is better but I understand the need to minimize the options.

CPU - well, already the first atoms were good enough

ATV2 - Can't be compared to this offering. But anything like at ATV2 but with an open OS and running XBMC is a dream.

[crooksy]

Yes I was talking about the IdeaCentre Q150 which in my view is comparatively well specced for it's purpose. Yes it doesn't have 1Gbps Ethernet but my "mom" doesn't have a 1Gbps network at home so this is a nice to have feature along with a 64bit OS.

I do get it that the OpenELEC is easier to run out the box and that other alternatives require more investment (time) to get up and running.

It's just that I expected it to be priced somewhere between an ATV2 and a mini PC/Nettop so that it's more in the impulse buy category.

@vikjon0 "..anything like an ATV2 but with an open OS and running XBMC is a dream" - agreed.

[natethomas]

Yes I was talking about the IdeaCentre Q150 which in my view is comparatively well specced for it's purpose. Yes it doesn't have 1Gbps Ethernet but my "mom" doesn't have a 1Gbps network at home so this is a nice to have feature along with a 64bit OS.

I do get it that the OpenELEC is easier to run out the box and that other alternatives require more investment (time) to get up and running.

It's just that I expected it to be priced somewhere between an ATV2 and a mini PC/Nettop so that it's more in the impulse buy category.

A guy tosses out the word "mom" and suddenly everyone loves quoting him.

Anyway, to get it down to that price point, you have to start looking at SoC computers, which don't yet run XBMC (which is what both the Boxee Box and the Apple TV2 are) and are still several generations from being as powerful as the current OpenELEC box.

Still, as mentioned on the front page, Sigma is working to get XBMC on their chips. Tegra2 isn't a great option, since it's somewhat limited on the 1080p front. But there are other chips out there, so who knows what'll happen in the future.

Until then, the OpenELEC box is likely to be the best (or, at least, possibly the only) XBMC-installed option, so if you want to buy your own box and install, you can, if you want to jailbrake, you can, and if you want everything working out of the box, that's finally an option too.

[crooksy]

A guy tosses out the word "mom" and suddenly everyone loves quoting him.

Anyway, to get it down to that price point, you have to start looking at SoC computers, which don't yet run XBMC (which is what both the Boxee Box and the Apple TV2 are) and are still several generations from being as powerful as the current OpenELEC box.

Still, as mentioned on the front page, Sigma is working to get XBMC on their chips. Tegra2 isn't a great option, since it's somewhat limited on the 1080p front. But there are other chips out there, so who knows what'll happen in the future.

Until then, the OpenELEC box is likely to be the best (or, at least, possibly the only) XBMC-installed option, so if you want to buy your own box and install, you can, if you want to jailbrake, you can, and if you want everything working out of the box, that's finally an option too.

There are so many options and so many upcoming options that it's tricky deciding on the best solution.

I guess it's credit to the XBMC developers and community that there are so many options available, I'm certainly not complaining

[Malard]

As I said before, I'm not bias towards one device over another, but I'm truly trying to find something similar. And I think I have.

Giada N20-W2231 for $310: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6856176006

Again, I don't have this device, so I'm comparing spec-for-spec.

The differences? The Giada is running DDR2 RAM instead (still 2GB). It has one less USB port. Instead of Mini-DP, it has VGA. No Firewire, but it has eSata (I think this is a key difference). It comes with no OS, but OpenELEC is free. It also comes with a remote, but it's IR. In theory, the Pulse-Eight remote is better, but we won't know until it actually comes out.

The CPU, HDD, and the amount of RAM is all the same. The case is almost as nice as the OpenELEC HTPC case.

What's primarily missing is the dedicated OpenELEC support and not shipping with OpenELEC. Again, different purposes. Different demographic. Speaking of demographic, I think the OpenELEC finds itself in an interesting spot. I think it's supposed to be marketed for "moms"? But moms wouldn't necessarily need a streamer this sophisticated, and paying more than $400 for it? Part of me thinks it's meant for XBMC enthusiasts who want a perfect system without the hassle.

The question is, are these differences worth $100?

With the Lenovo, I also realize you're paying for the brand. Nowadays, it isn't too big of a deal. It's a difference, nonetheless. Giada is still a lesser-known brand, but it's appropriately priced and has an impressive spec-sheet.

I think what will be difficult is finding a device that compares to the OpenELEC HTPC w/ DVD option.

I agree the device you found is nice, obviously what anyone buying the OpenELEC HTPC gets is something that works out the box, I wouldn't say it was targeted towards mums, but it is aimed at families or users who want a nice experience but either don't want the hassle setting up the system, or people who people who want the peace of mind that they are getting a supported system.

That extra $100 covers everything from everyone at OpenELEC building and maintaining support for the hardware and XBMC on the device to, other things such as dedicated skins, extra addons and features.

Updates are included free, so each time xbmc does a release it will get pushed onto the hardware when you hit the update button.

Cheers

[crooksy]

Giada N20-W2231 for $310, looks nice but does it come in black?

You guys are selling the OpenELEC HTPC well. However the fact that I was able to get XBMC running so well on my main HTPC means that I'm less worried about problems getting XBMC running on a second smaller machine so there is less incentive for me.

For first time users who can't be bothered with the hassle I can see the attraction. Maybe a nice discount for people who buy more than one system for multiple room setups would be a nice incentive.

[h.udo]

The thing is we tend to forget that most XBMC users aren't XBMC forum users. Elaborating some more on this, I think there are two types of XBMC users.

The 'common' XBMC user doesn't want too much hassle. It's the install and forget type. It works? Fine! I'm going to enjoy the content. This is the type of user that wants full support from the HTPC manufacturer/distributor. Messing under the hood isn't for them. They bought a product that should 'just work'.

The XBMC forum user is more tech-savvy, likes the occasional battle with hardware, cares about the perfect media center and is willing to waste time debugging and make things work flawlessly. Testing skins, add-ons, different XBMC source code (PVR, for instance) and getting yelled by the wife for breaking perfectly working things.

From my point of view, the OpenELEC HTPC is perfect for the 'commom' user type. For the rest of us, it's pretty close to perfection but we always want more.
We will never be satisfied. Never! We will always want more! I know I do.

Currently one of the biggest PITA with XBMC is updating. There's no simple way to update XBMC Live, for instance. The update is a nightmare in terms of shear number of steps one has to follow only to end up praying it works. Most time it doesn't and the 'common' user ends up with a broken system. The alternative is to download, burn and install the latest XBMC Live release. That can't be considered the practical way to update a system, can it?

On the other hand, OpenELEC _is_ capable of self-updating. No hassle! Isn't that worth a few more bucks?

h.udo

[jdbrookes]

The thing is we tend to forget that most XBMC users aren't XBMC forum users. Elaborating some more on this, I think there are two types of XBMC users.

The 'common' XBMC user doesn't want too much hassle. It's the install and forget type. It works? Fine! I'm going to enjoy the content. This is the type of user that wants full support from the HTPC manufacturer/distributor. Messing under the hood isn't for them. They bought a product that should 'just work'.

The XBMC forum user is more tech-savvy, likes the occasional battle with hardware, cares about the perfect media center and is willing to waste time debugging and make things work flawlessly. Testing skins, add-ons, different XBMC source code (PVR, for instance) and getting yelled by the wife for breaking perfectly working things.

From my point of view, the OpenELEC HTPC is perfect for the 'commom' user type. For the rest of us, it's pretty close to perfection but we always want more.
We will never be satisfied. Never! We will always want more! I know I do.

Currently one of the biggest PITA with XBMC is updating. There's no simple way to update XBMC Live, for instance. The update is a nightmare in terms of shear number of steps one has to follow only to end up praying it works. Most time it doesn't and the 'common' user ends up with a broken system. The alternative is to download, burn and install the latest XBMC Live release. That can't be considered the practical way to update a system, can it?

On the other hand, OpenELEC _is_ capable of self-updating. No hassle! Isn't that worth a few more bucks?

h.udo

Exactly! XBMC has always been a bit of a turnoff for many users because of the complexity required to just get things working at all. Any solution that begins with "login to SSH" is too much already for a lot of people.

Openelec is a great idea because you can literally set it up and just use it, and leave it at that. No underlying OS to update and worry about. No accidental button presses that get you a blank screen or a problem. You can even enable Kiosk mode if you want to completely lock it down. I imagine for many openelec users they won't apply any available updates unless they absolutely have to (eg scrapers need to be updated).

In my case I got the openelec build recommended for my system and applied two well-documented fixes and I was good to go. I am willing to tinker however, so should another update arrive I will probably apply it (a week after everyone else though).

If in future it wil be possible to buy a cheap XBMC box with openelec preinstalled, even better. I would happily recommend it to any of my techno-phobe friends that want to get started with an advanced home media system. Great job!

[h.udo]

The good news is there are plans to migrate - or at least consider - XBMC Live to something OpenELEC like.

Its in the roadmap... It must be truth!...

h.udo

[KidKiwi]

Currently one of the biggest PITA with XBMC is updating. There's no simple way to update XBMC Live, for instance. The update is a nightmare in terms of shear number of steps one has to follow only to end up praying it works. Most time it doesn't and the 'common' user ends up with a broken system. The alternative is to download, burn and install the latest XBMC Live release. That can't be considered the practical way to update a system, can it? h.udo

Hit the nail on the head. I live in fear of the update process, because if I bork it, I have no media center to use without hours and hours of wasted time trying to get it working again.

I really wish this aspect of live was put at the top of the list and an easy update system was developed. Something easy to carry out from the GUI - and yeah...the ability to roll-back if things are not to your liking. Is this a difficult thing from the programming side??

[vikjon0]

The only thing is to upgrade xbmc and leave the OS + make a backup.
This upgrade could be added to GUI and it would be a greate idea to add clonezilla to the installation with a backup /restore in the grub menu.

I am pretty sure there will be an openElec 2.0 sooner or later that will not upgrade painless.

This is totally off topic.

[darkscout]

No underlying OS to update and worry about

Um... No.
You may not worry about it or pay attention to it. It doesn't mean it isn't there.

And the best thing "live" can do in the mean time is add XBMC to the sudo user group and someone needs to write an "apt-get update" "apt-get upgrade xbmc*" python script for the GUI.

[jdbrookes]

Um... No.
You may not worry about it or pay attention to it. It doesn't mean it isn't there.

Exactly my point! I don't see it, I don't really have access to it, and if it all works then I don't have to think about it! Sure the OS is a big deal for the developers of Openelec, especially when updating bits from one version to the next, but their hard work means more time for me to watch my videos. In case I haven't said it before, major thanks to them for Openelec.