2012-09-23, 17:58
(2012-06-10, 11:33)spiff Wrote: why on earth would we lift a finger to help spread geolocked drm infestation? Netflix and hulu should be actively worked against, not facilitated, by anyone supporting floss.
+1
+1
2012-09-27, 21:43
I enjoy netflix on my android phone and tablet (sorry spiff... I'll think harder about whether this is the right thing to do and look around for alternatives).
Now that xbmc is being developed for android (I haven't tried to install it on either device as they are not supported and I expect things to be broken), would something like launcher also work with android, allowing the netflix app to be launched simply from within xbmc, and closing back to xbmc when exiting netflix? I will probably buy one of the set top boxes in the near future to run xbmc, but would be nice if netflix and/or other streaming services worked nicely. Waiting just a bit longer to see which hardware shakes out to be the best for features, value, support and stability.
Now that xbmc is being developed for android (I haven't tried to install it on either device as they are not supported and I expect things to be broken), would something like launcher also work with android, allowing the netflix app to be launched simply from within xbmc, and closing back to xbmc when exiting netflix? I will probably buy one of the set top boxes in the near future to run xbmc, but would be nice if netflix and/or other streaming services worked nicely. Waiting just a bit longer to see which hardware shakes out to be the best for features, value, support and stability.
2012-09-30, 20:47
(2012-06-10, 11:33)spiff Wrote: why on earth would we lift a finger to help spread geolocked drm infestation? Netflix and hulu should be actively worked against, not facilitated, by anyone supporting floss.
+2. This stuff is a disease, and avoiding it is the REASON I installed XBMC. Sickbeard+Couchpotato+Usenet+XBMC>>>>>>>>>>>>Netflix and Hulu>>>>>>>>>cable/satellite. And there are xbmc addons for both these services anyway[/i]. As has been stated, xbmc would likely have to pay for the "privilege" of this functionality. Not a good use of funds, IMHO.
Now if Netflix/Hulu wanted to approach XBMC and OFFER their services, that'd be a slightly different story, and something I wouldn't oppose. But I don't see that happening any time soon.
2012-10-05, 15:36
^^^^
the netflix addon is not really a netflix addon, it just plays stuff in the qeue, its very primitive compared to offerings on other media players.
I also understand the hardcore users on here use usenet, torrenting, I am familiar with all of this, but i hope xbmc also realizes their are just casual users besides us who like the look of xbmc, and would like a solid netflix pandora addon supported. Also some people are completely opposed to using those means to gather media and quite frankly to scared and dont want to or know how to use a proxy.
I spend alot of time on avsforum where theirs is a large xbmc/media browser base as well, and many want these features in xbmc, they have wives and children who like them who are not going to torrent and search usenet for tv shows like many hardcore xbmc fans who post on this forum. I think if the development team would ever want to guage interest they would receive a decent amount of different replies their with quite a bit of interest in it. Just recently someone their was asking in the htpc and media streamer area about xbmc as an option, but stated beyond storing his media, he wanted the device to have netflix support...
Also advanced launcher is ok, for launching netflix.com but their are many issues with it, the point some people feel of xbmc front end is to use a remote and relax, that solution requires a mouse and keyboard, I dont really care, but again quite a few people outside here do. Their is also complaints the quality and amount of shows offered by netflix on the website is substantially less compared to netflix solutions on a meda streamer.
See i disgaree with this. I understand the issues brought up in this thread by the development team, but no way do i prefer many of the plugins roaming around here. Many are a mess, breaking constantly, when someone else takes over often they have their own git, errors and many creators of these addons just have little time to maintain them and often just disappear.
I would love to see xbmc team officially support these as they are crucial part of most media streamers, many in my family would love xbmc, but dont use it due to things like netflix support.
Many general users, thousands who dont spend time on here and are not technically inclined would take a closer look at xbmc if it offered things like netflix, pandora solution nicely built in to xbmc. I know theirs some on here who dont support netflix, but many casual users would.
And I am no netflix fan myself i just know how popular it is with family and friends and how they would love xbmc setup but would never consider using xbmc due to this. As for it costing money, i think xbmc should charge users who wish to use it. I dont think those who want netflix or pandora would have issues paying a price for particular addons as long as its supported and maintained. And for those who could care less, they would not have to spend a dime on those addons.
Of course I dont know what the developments team vision for xbmc is.... is it to be a niche software product myself and others use who have some knowledge of computer skills and know where to locate media ourselves? Or do they want it embraced by anyone and everyone as the be all/end all media streamer/front end software anyone would ever need, so even casual users who do like apps that are featured on boxee, apple tv, roku, such as netflix and pandora will consider using it as well?
The above was just in theory, I understand all the concerns brought up such as lack of man power, and DRM implementation as well that would cause it to be road block, i was just addressing the interest some people would have in using it.
the netflix addon is not really a netflix addon, it just plays stuff in the qeue, its very primitive compared to offerings on other media players.
I also understand the hardcore users on here use usenet, torrenting, I am familiar with all of this, but i hope xbmc also realizes their are just casual users besides us who like the look of xbmc, and would like a solid netflix pandora addon supported. Also some people are completely opposed to using those means to gather media and quite frankly to scared and dont want to or know how to use a proxy.
I spend alot of time on avsforum where theirs is a large xbmc/media browser base as well, and many want these features in xbmc, they have wives and children who like them who are not going to torrent and search usenet for tv shows like many hardcore xbmc fans who post on this forum. I think if the development team would ever want to guage interest they would receive a decent amount of different replies their with quite a bit of interest in it. Just recently someone their was asking in the htpc and media streamer area about xbmc as an option, but stated beyond storing his media, he wanted the device to have netflix support...
Also advanced launcher is ok, for launching netflix.com but their are many issues with it, the point some people feel of xbmc front end is to use a remote and relax, that solution requires a mouse and keyboard, I dont really care, but again quite a few people outside here do. Their is also complaints the quality and amount of shows offered by netflix on the website is substantially less compared to netflix solutions on a meda streamer.
(2012-06-06, 19:59)PartialGestalt Wrote: I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't see the advantage to doing this (and I can see several disadvantages).
Because these services are external, and can (and often do) change outside the XBMC schedules, having support for them in the core would generate either broken systems or unnecessary churn. These external services are, I think, a perfect example of what addons do well; they're independently updateable, well-defined and well-separated chunks of functionality.
See i disgaree with this. I understand the issues brought up in this thread by the development team, but no way do i prefer many of the plugins roaming around here. Many are a mess, breaking constantly, when someone else takes over often they have their own git, errors and many creators of these addons just have little time to maintain them and often just disappear.
I would love to see xbmc team officially support these as they are crucial part of most media streamers, many in my family would love xbmc, but dont use it due to things like netflix support.
Many general users, thousands who dont spend time on here and are not technically inclined would take a closer look at xbmc if it offered things like netflix, pandora solution nicely built in to xbmc. I know theirs some on here who dont support netflix, but many casual users would.
And I am no netflix fan myself i just know how popular it is with family and friends and how they would love xbmc setup but would never consider using xbmc due to this. As for it costing money, i think xbmc should charge users who wish to use it. I dont think those who want netflix or pandora would have issues paying a price for particular addons as long as its supported and maintained. And for those who could care less, they would not have to spend a dime on those addons.
Of course I dont know what the developments team vision for xbmc is.... is it to be a niche software product myself and others use who have some knowledge of computer skills and know where to locate media ourselves? Or do they want it embraced by anyone and everyone as the be all/end all media streamer/front end software anyone would ever need, so even casual users who do like apps that are featured on boxee, apple tv, roku, such as netflix and pandora will consider using it as well?
The above was just in theory, I understand all the concerns brought up such as lack of man power, and DRM implementation as well that would cause it to be road block, i was just addressing the interest some people would have in using it.
2012-10-05, 17:07
It would be nice to include Netflix support within XBMC. For us, we watches stuffs off Netflix more than blu-ray disc and any other online streaming sites. It's working fine so far, and I haven't attract any disease or bug from it. For now, here is my work around- post #751.......
2012-10-06, 06:53
Quote:Many are a mess, breaking constantly, when someone else takes over often they have their own git, errors and many creators of these addons just have little time to maintain them and often just disappear.
They are not that way because they are add-ons, they are that way because those services (Netflix, etc) actively work to block outside access to their content. If these were "core" features then you would have to wait an entire year for an update each time one of these sites changed something. Add-ons allow us to modularize more of XBMC and push out updates to those moduals as needed. There are Team XBMC maintained add-ons, after all. There are even add-ons that are co-maintained by the Team and by the general community.
People need to get it out of their heads that being a "core" addition makes something better. It's a form of organization, not a ranking of importance. There are some technical limitations for add-ons, but in most cases (such as this one) those aren't the issue.
XBMC developers tend to be very dedicated, but are still people just like add-on makers. Sometimes an XBMC dev goes away and a "core" feature breaks and we can't do anything about it. We've all just volunteers, and if at any time a developer wants to stop working on some feature, they're totally free to do so. It's no guarantee that the feature will be any better supported by being in the core of XBMC, because at the end of the day someone has to want to work on it. No one gets assigned to these things, they just take them up as they go and if they want to.
2012-10-06, 07:03
Quote:Of course I dont know what the developments team vision for xbmc is.... is it to be a niche software product myself and others use who have some knowledge of computer skills and know where to locate media ourselves? Or do they want it embraced by anyone and everyone as the be all/end all media streamer/front end software anyone would ever need, so even casual users who do like apps that are featured on boxee, apple tv, roku, such as netflix and pandora will consider using it as well?
XBMC manifesto (wiki):
Quote:User-friendliness is next to godlyness
One major ongoing goal of Team-XBMC has always been to make XBMC and its user interface feel even more intuitive and user-friendly for its end-users, based on the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle of simplicity. It is our belief that usability is the most important aspect of a media center like XBMC. Many other media center projects make user interface decisions by developers, who often have little experience in user interface design. In contrast, Team-XBMC does its best to listen to XBMC's end-users to learn how XBMC is actually being used and how we can improve the user experience. We also aim to do regular overhauls, improving existing features/functions, and scrapping outdated code and features/functions (as "too much stuff" adds unnecessary complexity and can thus also be a bad thing). Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.
XBMC as a whole must...
•First and foremost be aimed at a large-screen (28" or more) 10-foot user interface for the living-room experience.
---Large menus, text/fonts and buttons that is designed to be navigated by a hand-held remote-control.
•Be focused around the main features of playing music, watching movies, recorded television broadcasts, and viewing pictures.
---XBMC may be capable of converging other things but those things should never take over the main focus in the interface.
•Be easy to install, set up and maintain (so that our valuable end-users do not get fed up with it and quit).
•Have an user interface that is simple and intuitive enough so that less tech-savvy people are not intimidated by it.
---Make common usage easy, simple 'Human–Computer Interaction (HCI)', from the viewpoint of an ordinary user.
•Be able to play audio and video files that have been encoded using DivX, XviD, etc. directly out-of-the-box.
•Be able to organize audio and video files in an easy and user-friendly way.
•Use standards and be consistent, (the Music section can for example not use completely different controls from the Video section).
•Perform actions in the GUI with as few 'clicks' as possible.
•Be aimed at an international audience, internationalization and localization by supporting different languages, timezones and other regional differences
•Require little to no non-GUI configuration (and all such non-GUI configuration should be done in just one file: advancedsettings.xml).
•Be beautiful to look at, after all we hope you will be using it a lot!
Team-XBMC members should always strive to
•Promote open source - XBMC is based on the ideas of FOSS (free open source software), licensed under the GPL and builds partly on other open source projects which we do our best to support. The GPL should be respected at all times. All code should be committed to the XBMC project’s git repo before any public binaries are released.
•Promote the sharing of knowledge and collaboration - Through the use of information sharing tools and practices XBMC is a collaborative environment.
•Understand that development is a team effort - Treating our users as co-developers has proven to be the most effective option for rapid development. Always strive to work as a team at all times. Actively promote discussion on new features and bug fixes, and respect others comments and criticisms with replies in a timely fashion.
•Apply the Law of Diminishing Return - The majority of the effort should be invested in implementing features which have the most benefit and widest general usage by the community.
•Try to make all code, feature, and functions to be platform agnostic - XBMC is a multi-platform software, thus any single platform specific features should be discussed with other team members before implemented. Major features should be developed in a separate branch or committed in small increments so that other members have the opportunity to review the code and comment on it during development.
2012-10-06, 07:16
besides drm another reason is that the tos or eula of those services is broken. Who's responsible? The user, the addon maker or the foundation?
2012-10-06, 11:55
(2012-10-06, 06:53)Ned Scott Wrote:Quote:Many are a mess, breaking constantly, when someone else takes over often they have their own git, errors and many creators of these addons just have little time to maintain them and often just disappear.
They are not that way because they are add-ons, they are that way because those services (Netflix, etc) actively work to block outside access to their content. If these were "core" features then you would have to wait an entire year for an update each time one of these sites changed something. Add-ons allow us to modularize more of XBMC and push out updates to those moduals as needed. There are Team XBMC maintained add-ons, after all. There are even add-ons that are co-maintained by the Team and by the general community.
People need to get it out of their heads that being a "core" addition makes something better. It's a form of organization, not a ranking of importance. There are some technical limitations for add-ons, but in most cases (such as this one) those aren't the issue.
XBMC developers tend to be very dedicated, but are still people just like add-on makers. Sometimes an XBMC dev goes away and a "core" feature breaks and we can't do anything about it. We've all just volunteers, and if at any time a developer wants to stop working on some feature, they're totally free to do so. It's no guarantee that the feature will be any better supported by being in the core of XBMC, because at the end of the day someone has to want to work on it. No one gets assigned to these things, they just take them up as they go and if they want to.
You are reading way to much into what I said. I have no issues with "addons" at all, my issue is with netflix, pandora, and certain addons being maintained by individual users outside of the xbmc team which are quite popular and a staple of many media streamers.
Your last sentence "Add-ons allow us to modularize more of XBMC and push out updates to those moduals as needed. There are Team XBMC maintained add-ons, after all. There are even add-ons that are co-maintained by the Team and by the general community" is basically what I am getting at. I would like a team maintained addon for some important ones like netflix, pandora, that are core features on alot of media streamers. Apps that come with xbmc i have no issue with, they generally work well and are reliable, albiet a bit primitive compared to other offerings. Its the outside individually user maintained addons i find frustrating and a mess. Obviously some obscure addons xbmc team would never have time or good reason to maintain. But I would simply like to see these more popular ones maintained and developed by team xbmc, that was really the only point i was trying to make, specifically ones like netflix and pandora.
Xbmc is my favorite and the nicest front end out their, but this is an area from someone on the outside looking in that I would love to see improved, IF it were ever possible. But if you view addons/apps or whatever you want to call it in other offerings, their much more robust and ready out of the box and very user freindly and maintained by a central body. Of course they charge for this but as I mentioned some people who want these would pay for these offerings, and hence why I suggested it be a pay for offering by team xbmc. I have no idea what xbmc has planned or feels toward this topic, maybe its to risky for the team to take on, maybe to much work or to difficult to implement. I am just a consumer. Their might not be enough man power, or even possible to do any of this based on how xbmc operates, it might just be an unrealistic pipe dream by me. The point of my original post was simply to state in theory many end users or general users who dont even visit this forum would like to see some of these features developed and maintained by the xbmc team as a polished offering that comes with xbmc. And again this might simply not be possible.
All I know is many newbie or casual users who are looking for media streaming device or software, one of the first things they ask about is netflix support, and when I lived in the u.s. pandora as well. Weather xbmc would ever want to take on and develop addons for these so they would become a staple of xbmc, or if it would even be possible I have no idea, its just something I would like to see.
2012-10-06, 13:29
Quote:Apps that come with xbmc i have no issue with, they generally work well and are reliable, albiet a bit primitive compared to other offerings.
What's primitive? You mean the scrapers? XBMC doesn't come with any video add-ons pre-installed.
Quote:I have no idea what xbmc has planned or feels toward this topic, maybe its to risky for the team to take on, maybe to much work or to difficult to implement. I am just a consumer. Their might not be enough man power, or even possible to do any of this based on how xbmc operates, it might just be an unrealistic pipe dream by me.
It's pretty much what I said before, "...at the end of the day someone has to want to work on it. No one gets assigned to these things, they just take them up as they go and if they want to."
In addition to that, regarding Netflix specifically, Netflix will never work without them coming to us and supporting us. No amount of work, no matter how much you pay them, will give you an XBMC Netflix add-on that actually works. Even if someone did hack something together, if Team XBMC was officially supporting it then we'd be a legal target for breaking the DMCA, but even getting that far is doubtful.
However, the Hulu add-on made by BlueCop has been fantastically stable for a very long time.
2012-10-07, 10:45
(2012-10-06, 13:29)Ned Scott Wrote:Quote:Apps that come with xbmc i have no issue with, they generally work well and are reliable, albiet a bit primitive compared to other offerings.
What's primitive? You mean the scrapers? XBMC doesn't come with any video add-ons pre-installed.
No scrappers are one of xbmc best points, i thought we were discussing a/v addons like netflix, hulu, and pandora?
Also your last sentence explains more the issue with it, thats why I asked if this is an unrealistic pipe dream, not whether someone would get around to working on it.
2012-10-17, 11:11
(2012-06-06, 19:44)tjcinnamon Wrote: I know that Netflix, Hulu and Pandora are not natively supported on XBMC (as they are plugins) but I think they are popular enough services where they should be actively developed in the community for the upcoming releases (Frodo...).
Thoughts?
Netflix has just been launched in Sweden. I've tried it out so far (in the browser) and is eagerly looking forward to using it with XBMC.
Still, I think it's good from an architectural point of view to maintain these as plugins. Maybe they can be bundled with the official distribution?
2012-10-19, 06:13
Best Netflix solution? Switch to Amazon. Works perfectly in XBMC and can even be incorporated into your library using the MyLibrary script.
2012-10-21, 23:36
(2012-10-19, 06:13)locoguano Wrote: Best Netflix solution? Switch to Amazon. Works perfectly in XBMC and can even be incorporated into your library using the MyLibrary script.
Will it work on Linux? Through a plug in or what? How are you doing this?
I don't use streaming services much but when I do I run them thru PlayOn, I get Amazon VOD,Netflix, and many others. It's a kludge for sure but works!
