Can't seem to remove non-existent Genres from music library

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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #1
Hello all- New to XBMC and loving it so far. Running on a G-Box midnight. When I update my music file genres using MP3Tag (getting rid of odd genres from 1st library import to XBMC), these no-longer-existing genres are remaining in the music library Genre menu. clicking on one of them in the music library leads to an empty view with no associated track. I have triple confirmed the genres do not exist in my library on any tracks, and I have done a 'clean library' and 'update library' several times. Any idea how I can fix this without removing / reimporting the entire source library? Seems like newly added genres show up ok, but old ones previously listed in XBMC and now removed from media files do not go away.

TIA-

XBMC Frodo 12.0 - Confluence
(This post was last modified: 2013-01-28 21:24 by kurtlewis.)
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #2
Your best bet is to check the database itself.

i.e. select * from genre;

Find the bad ones then find what is linking to them via the genrelink tables.

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #3
(2013-01-29 04:37)jmarshall Wrote:  Your best bet is to check the database itself.

i.e. select * from genre;

Find the bad ones then find what is linking to them via the genrelink tables.

Thanks for taking the time to reply- That's a tad bit outside of my abilities, not a dev or DBA. Plus it is installed on a G-Box Midnight so there is no SSH access it would seem.

Would this be considered a bug or normal issue with XBMC Frodo latest release? e.g. shouldn't the clean library function remove orphan generes? I'm only asking since I'm sure you guys have kicked the tires on the release and real-world tested it with common things like updating your media files, then needing to update the XBMC library and have it show the correct additions / removals. I'm very careful to always properly update tags etc and I use both musicbrainz and mp3tag.
(This post was last modified: 2013-01-29 05:03 by kurtlewis.)
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #4
It'd be considered a bug, yes.

The trick is reproducing it. It might be easy, but it's usually harder than it looks Wink

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
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Ned Scott Offline
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Post: #5
It's probably just a situation no one has come across. This is just a guess, but I would say there's two main groups:

One is probably the larger group that doesn't really use the music features in XBMC, or doesn't use it a lot.

Most of those that do use the music features, developers and users alike, seem to have massive music collections and probably rarely come across a situation where they would have an orphaned genre.

So while it seems easy enough to come across, it's probably just one of those weird things that 99% never noticed :)

You can make easy links to the XBMC wiki using double brackets around common XBMC words: [[debug log]] = debug log, [[Video library]] = Video library, [[SMB]] = SMB , [[userdata]] = userdata, etc
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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #6
jmarshall, ned- thanks guys- And I do hear where you are coming from. While I am not a dev, I do run a company which develops enterprise software products- I know the drill when a bug is reported Wink -my specific tech background is system engineering / architecture and product design.

Essentially, I am able to reproduce the issue. My main and sole goal of using XBMC is for our whole home distributed audio system, playing about 1tb of music files from a QNAP 419 NAS. Everything is state of the art with gig-ethernet, etc for connctivity.

I set up XBMC with minimal config- just added the 1tb library via SMB path to the NAS music share. loaded up files, enabled library mode, set 'download info on update'.
I then noticed some genres that were messy / not correct- XBMC gives a very good view of thinsgs. I then used musicbrainz to tag a few untagged albums, and mp3tag to clean up some genres.

I then went to XBMC, hit 'clean library', then afterwards hit 'update library'
I then noticed in genres the new entries were there, but some (not all) of the old entries persisted.
I re-ran clean library, re-ran update library, rebooted XBMC, issue was not resolved

I loaded up the entire library directory in mp3tag and viewed all genres on all files. no errant genres existed.
So essentially I could not figure out how to resolve this, but did not (IMHO) do anything out of the ordinary with "typical" library use

I removed source in the XBMC, removed database, re-added the sorurce and files. everything looked clean with genres.
I then added 20 errant genres on groups of album files with mp3tag, updated library, new genres showed up
I then removed errant genres, cleaned library, updated library, and the errant genres were still there.

So now I have to again remove the source, re-add, to fix. a timely process -

-Hope this helps, would love for XBMC to be the music machine I'm looking for and overall you've really got a nice looking / operating product - It just has to stand the test of typical associated use as it relates to music playback and maintaining an ever growing music library for the family.
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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #7
One further bit of info if it helps-

I had one album with a mis-spelled genre, which of course displayed this in the XBMC genre list. I fixed the genre in mp3tag, updated library in XBMC, and the mis-spelled genre was removed. all seemed perfect. This album had typical ID3 tags.

I also had one mp3 music file that appeared tagged properly but was showing "Unknown" genre in XBMC. I reviewed the file in mp3tag, and it looked ok - mp3tag and also musicbrainz displayed the genre on the file correctly. I noticed the file was tagged with typical ID3 tags, and also an APEv2 tag. I stripped the tags off file and re-added ID3 tags with mp3tag. did an 'update library' in XBMC and now the music file properly shows the genre. However, the previous "unknown" genre introduced by this file will not go away. I tried another clean library, reboot, no luck.


Maybe the issue of persistent genre entries has to do with music files which have this combo tagging of ID3 / APE? I could try to dig up another one of these types of dual tagged files and send to you for review. Use case is, we often update genres on added music based on listening prefs. For example, Coldplay is by default tagged as "rock" by most music databases. But in our house, this is firmly "pop" music and is edited accordingly. These updates need to always be correct without an eventual littered list of disconnected genre entries.

I have also noticed that a number of artist list entires are not mapping to the corresponding music file. I will see an entry - click it - and get 'nothing found' - but the files are indeed there on the NAS server. I'm not seeing a common reason why some would do this and others work correctly. Definitely not a share issue or permissions issue, because these same files can be played via the album view or genre view.
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jmarshall Offline
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Post: #8
Nope, it'll be some other reason. For example, it might be if there's more than one genre in the file (it'll be shown in the UI as genre1 / genre2 when in song info).

Basically the best plan of attack is to check directly in the database, compare with the link tables etc. and that will show us the issue.

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #9
Thx- I know for sure there are no multiple genre entries. plus I stripped the ID tags off the file in question completely, saved, then re-added tags manually. the "unknown" stays in the genre list even though there is nothing to link it to. So I'm guessing that I am the only one reporting this issue, and no one else is observing this type of anomaly with large libraries? I'm not able to check db and do file compares, that's outside of my realm.

As an A-B test using itunes to view the shared library (QNAP has an emulated itunes server on it), the genres all updated correctly and deleted correctly- and now after this last bit of testing the genre list in XBMC is al messed up with old genres again. Deleting the source, library and re-adding it is the only way I have found to sync it back up. . but I dont have to mention how pathetically horrible itunes is, and that is not even an option as a central library system..

Outside of DB checking, anything esle I can do to help flush this out as a possible bug? Other than this and the oddness with 'artist' view not finding some of the associated files to play, XBMC is stellar.
(This post was last modified: 2013-01-31 00:41 by kurtlewis.)
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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #10
Further detail- my XBMC install is Frodo RC1 from BoxTopTheater. Apparently I'm supposed to use this since it has HW accelleration enabled. But does this matter if we will only use this device for music library playback?

I saw that you had a thread here on updating scanning logic for compilation albums- I'm wondering if that might be part of my issue with artist entries in artist list not being able to find the corresponding files. All of my albums use the 'albumartist' tag and compilations use the 'compilation' tag set to "1" for compilations. For the albumartist tag, we don't use a lot of "various artist" entires there. We usually enter the album compiler's name, for example, "Essential Mix" for a compilation of live mix sets done by various DJ's but put together by Essential Mix. We don't want the individual track artists to show in artist list, but do want to find related tracks if you click on "Essential Mix" in the artist list. Right now the artist list sees "Essential Mix" but clicking on it says 'nothing found'.

I saw your latest git here with changed logic- might it help?
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/commit/2a10...b284af0d26
(This post was last modified: 2013-01-31 17:35 by kurtlewis.)
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Madmark555 Offline
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Post: #11
Hello all,
I'm happy to find this thread as i've had same kind of problem and was unable to find any help so far.
I also mostly use Xbmc for audio purposes and i am quite maniac with my collection. Genres are important to me because it's a way for me to quickly select content depending on my mood.
I spent days to rip my entire cd collection in Flac and i tagged each and every song myself with the fantastic Mp3Tag.
I was surprised to find in my library Genres that i never entered. So i checked and rechecked and rechecked all the files.
After many researches, it seems that this incorrect genres only appear in the album information from the scraper (universal scraper used).
I was unable to delete this information even by configuring the scraper, it seems that this information once imported is here forever.
I am about to install a new HTPC, so i'll do everything again this time being aware of the problem and configuring the scraper before fisrt scan.

If anyone can correct me or give me information (i may have not understand everything, i am new with xbmc), thanks in advance.

Apart from this detail, i am more than satisfied with this dream jukebox i've been looking for a long time.

Please also excuse my english, it's not my language.
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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #12
(2014-02-12 15:04)Madmark555 Wrote:  Hello all,
I'm happy to find this thread as i've had same kind of problem and was unable to find any help so far.
I also mostly use Xbmc for audio purposes and i am quite maniac with my collection. Genres are important to me because it's a way for me to quickly select content depending on my mood.
I spent days to rip my entire cd collection in Flac and i tagged each and every song myself with the fantastic Mp3Tag.
I was surprised to find in my library Genres that i never entered. So i checked and rechecked and rechecked all the files.
After many researches, it seems that this incorrect genres only appear in the album information from the scraper (universal scraper used).
I was unable to delete this information even by configuring the scraper, it seems that this information once imported is here forever.
I am about to install a new HTPC, so i'll do everything again this time being aware of the problem and configuring the scraper before fisrt scan.

If anyone can correct me or give me information (i may have not understand everything, i am new with xbmc), thanks in advance.

Apart from this detail, i am more than satisfied with this dream jukebox i've been looking for a long time.

Please also excuse my english, it's not my language.

Hi MadMark- I hate to say it but you will not get any help or attention here to resolve the issue. My requests have gone ignored- I do not think the main focus of XBMC is music playback.

I do have a solution for you that works very well though! I have a very large library of all master quality vinyl rips and 24/96 CD rips, stored as FLAC. I tag with Mp3Tag.

1. download and install SlimServer (google for it) - it is FREE. SlimServer is a "back end" library system, it is bomb-proof and works excellent for music library functions. There are linux and windows distros. I purchased a QNAP 12tb NAS and installed SlimServer on it.
2. if you want to play the library through your sound system you will need a hardware device from Logitech, I picked up a Logitech Transporter but the Logitech Duet is also quite good (ebay). These devices solely get their data from the Slim Server library. There is also Pandora and a bunch of 3rd party plugins that work well.
3. Use one of the iOS or Android apps to control the Logitec device. - there is a Logitech app for iOS that is free and works very well. iPeng is also good- there is a free and a paid version.
4. I have not tried it, but you may be able to install a playback app on the Android side of your XBMC device, have it access Slim Server, and use the audio out from your XBMC device to your stereo. - Or, you said you have a HTPC, you may be able to use the audio out from your HTPC with SlimServer installed on the HTPC.

The way it works is this:
1. Slim Server is the "library software" that reads and organizes your media files (the Back End) - Free
2. Slim Server is designed to work with any of the Logitech music playback devices (the Front End) - Not free, but not expensive for a basic player and there ar a lot of them for sale on ebay.
3. You control the Logitech device remotely via mobile device app or web browser. the Logitech app is free and there are some paid apps as well.

I tried to like the XBMC solution for use as a dedicated music library system, and waited forever for someone here to take my help request seriously. It never happened.
(This post was last modified: 2014-02-12 15:58 by kurtlewis.)
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Madmark555 Offline
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Post: #13
Hi Kurtlewis,
First of all, thanks for your advice and answer. I will look into it closely.
Perhaps i didn't explain myself enough. I like Xbmc very much so far, so i will keep on looking.
I have a PC connected by USB directly to the stereo, because it's one with a very good DAC (Musical fidelity M6i). The PC is also connected by hdmi to the TV and i must say that it's the best way i have found to have a great sound with great visuals on the screen (fanart, lyrics, info, ...). I am not sure your recommended solution would offer as much features, but once again a big thank you and i will look into it.

My problem is only a slight inconvenience compared to all Xbmc offers me. More, this slight inconvenience can "easily" be worked around with the great playlist features of XBMC. So I was kinda more looking for explanations, because i like to understand and i surely want to take the best benefits from this awesome media player.
(This post was last modified: 2014-02-12 16:46 by Madmark555.)
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kurtlewis Offline
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Post: #14
(2014-02-12 16:34)Madmark555 Wrote:  Hi Kurtlewis,
First of all, thanks for your advice and answer. I will look into it closely.
Perhaps i didn't explain myself enough. I like Xbmc very much so far, so i will keep on looking.
I have a PC connected by USB directly to the stereo, because it's one with a very good DAC (Musical fidelity M6i). The PC is also connected by hdmi to the TV and i must say that it's the best way i have found to have a great sound with great visuals on the screen (fanart, lyrics, info, ...). I am not sure your recommended solution would offer as much features, but once again a big thank you and i will look into it.

My problem is only a slight inconvenience compared to all Xbmc offers me. More, this slight inconvenience can "easily" be worked around with the great playlist features of XBMC. So I was kinda more looking for explanations, because i like to understand and i surely want to take the best benefits from this awesome technology.

Yep XMBC has excellent visuals and a lot of good features- I really wanted to use it and I tried for days / weeks / months with obtaining a fix / no luck. The only way you can get the old genres to clean out is to DELETE the entire library and let it rebuild from scratch. And even then, there are some issues with it reading tags properly and I always had some tracks / albums not getting categorized properly. I am always adding and recategorizing tracks especially with Genres, and it is a huge PITA. Essentially, solid playback of a well maintained music library is not going to happen without support from the developers, and it is my opinion that the music portion of this platform is very low priority (like zero). So you have to ask yourself what you want- pretty display or actual no-hassle music functionality?

I have to say that the Logitech Transporter is undoubtedly one of THE best sounding DACs out there. the used price is quite cheap for the quality of component that it is. I have an all Theta Digital system (Casablanca III HD processor, Dreadnaught amplifier) with BG Radia LA800 mains. The sound quality is A+ all the way.

The secondary benefit is you do not need to keep a HTPC running all the time just to listen to music. anyone in my house can pick up an ipad and listen to music / very easy to use and no hassle. The app interface is decent with displaying covers / thumbs, but it is geared more toward being highly useable. The Transporter goes to sleep mode when not in use and wakes up when it is accessed by a remote app device.

I use a HTPC for movie playback and at some point when I start ripping movies to the NAS I might revisit using the XBMC solely for that, since it does seem to work very well in that regard. So XBMC would be for movie content and the Slim Server / Transporter for music.

Hey here is a SlimServer / Squeezebox plugin for XBMC - this may actually let you keep XBMC as your front end display, but you can use Slim Server as the "back end" library system. This plugin would read from the SlimServer software's library.

http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Add-on:XSqueeze

Guide to using SlimServer: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Be...e_Overview
(This post was last modified: 2014-02-12 17:04 by kurtlewis.)
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Madmark555 Offline
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Post: #15
Thanks again for all this information.

I think my solution is optimal for my setup because the dac is inside the amp, so no analogic before the amp.

I will look into the slimserver plugin though, just curious.
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