[Khivar]

So... don't wait for the new Celeron $139 NUC, and buy the CuBox-i2Ultra for $95 in that case.
The NUC is $45 more expensive, but you get a platform which is far better supported in the linux community.
You could even add one of the cheap KingSpec 16Gb SSD's into it which cost about $20 if you want to avoid the removable thumb drive issue.

I won't buy the Cubox because as I said it's not x86 based. To me that's the major asset of this NUC, having a x86 architecture. The 16Gb SSD for $20 is really interesting, do you have a link ?

You say that the cost of a NUC with an SSD and 4Gb RAM is more expensive than an ARM device with 1Gb RAM and no SSD. What is your point?

I didn't even speak of 4GB Ram plus you're misreading again, what I actually said was that a NUC WITHOUT an SSD/HDD and WITHOUT RAM is more expensive (46%) than a full box like the cubox which is fanless and has some additional features.

The fan is a non-issue when it comes to noise, which has been said by many people on here. Look at the x-26 thread for example.

That's good to know. I'll look into it.

but the goal here is to have a full OS in order...

In which case the NUC is not expensive. Unless you know of a competing device which runs a full OS, and runs XBMC fast on top of the OS.

The NUC itself is not that expensive for a x86 computer. But a lot of ARM devices can have a full OS and run XBMC. And lets face it, ARM is the direct competition here for this use ( Linux / XBMC ). CuBox-i2Ultra and CuBox-i4Pro probably can, ODROID-U2 and quite a few others can do it.

My point is that it is slightly too expensive hardware wise when you put the NUC in front of the ARM alternatives.

[joelbaby]

The 16Gb SSD for $20 is really interesting, do you have a link ?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/45N8374-4...80175.html

The NUC itself is not that expensive for a x86 computer. But a lot of ARM devices can have a full OS and run XBMC. And lets face it, ARM is the direct competition here for this use ( Linux / XBMC ). CuBox-i2Ultra and CuBox-i4Pro probably can, ODROID-U2 and quite a few others can do it.

How many is "a lot of ARM devices" that run Linux + XBMC ? I can't think of many. Pivos may change that. But to run you through it:

AMLogic M6 and M8 - experimental Linux only
RK3188 - No linux that works
Exynos 4412 - No linux that works
AmLogic M3 (e.g. Pivos XIOS DS) and Raspberry Pi - Have linux - but too slow for good XBMC experience

Which ARM devices have I missed off the list that play XBMC 1080p + Full Linux?
Pivos will release something in October/November ... maybe it will be based on CuBox or Amlogic M8.

[joelbaby]

<deleted>

[voochi]

That new Bay Trail NUC looks very cool.

[Khivar]

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/45N8374-4...80175.html

Nice thanks

How many is "a lot of ARM devices" that run Linux + XBMC ? I can't think of many. Pivos may change that. But to run you through it:

AMLogic M6 and M8 - experimental Linux only
RK3188 - No linux that works
Exynos 4412 - No linux that works
AmLogic M3 (e.g. Pivos XIOS DS) and Raspberry Pi - Have linux - but too slow for good XBMC experience

Which ARM devices have I missed off the list that play XBMC 1080p + Full Linux?
Pivos will release something in October/November ... maybe it will be based on CuBox or Amlogic M8.

Exynos 4412 ( Odroid-U2) has linux support
Freescale i.MX6 ( Wandboard, Cubox-i ) has linux support

Raspberry Pi I would say that it is too slow for a good Linux experience but in XBMC only the menus are slow, the HW decoding is really really good. Pivos new product could indeed be interesting too.

[Dougie Fresh]

ASUS' Transformer Book T100: Atom Z3740 Inside, Available October 18th at $349

[noggin]

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/45N8374-4...80175.html

Nice thanks

How many is "a lot of ARM devices" that run Linux + XBMC ? I can't think of many. Pivos may change that. But to run you through it:

AMLogic M6 and M8 - experimental Linux only
RK3188 - No linux that works
Exynos 4412 - No linux that works
AmLogic M3 (e.g. Pivos XIOS DS) and Raspberry Pi - Have linux - but too slow for good XBMC experience

Which ARM devices have I missed off the list that play XBMC 1080p + Full Linux?
Pivos will release something in October/November ... maybe it will be based on CuBox or Amlogic M8.

Exynos 4412 ( Odroid-U2) has linux support
Freescale i.MX6 ( Wandboard, Cubox-i ) has linux support

Raspberry Pi I would say that it is too slow for a good Linux experience but in XBMC only the menus are slow, the HW decoding is really really good. Pivos new product could indeed be interesting too.

How is the video acceleration in the Exynos going? I think Raspberry Pi with Broadcom and Pivos (and clones) with AMLogic M3 processors have the best Linux video acceleration support of the ARM-based SoC stuff? However they are both quite low-powered in CPU terms (single core)

Allwinner is not great (due to bugs and poor support of Open Source), though i.MX6 appears to be going in a great direction in video acceleration terms (and with the newer Wandboard, Cubox-i etc. appears to be coming close to being a solution?)

Last I heard Exynos Linux team were having to use modified Android stuff to try to get hardware acceleration working (though the processor is fast enough to cope with some HD content - though not higher bitrate stuff - in sofware) Have the ODroid team managed to get 50Hz HDMI working properly?

[HVR4000er]

For now, the celeron/i3 is the best choice available.

I disagree. Intel Haswell Celeron / Pentium haves a castrated graphics. This is not the full featured HD4x00. But the TDP doesn't decrease.

The best choice avalable for an allround HTPC is a Haswell i3-4130T including the full HD4400. (TDP 35W)

The best choice available for a small power saving HTPC will be the Bay Trail Pentium J2850

Actually, the best choice for a cheap allround HTPC would be the Kabini A6-5200, but I guess that they aren't able to offer consumer mini ITX boards soon enough and cheap enough. It may happen that such a passive cooled Kabini board (like the Asus E35M1-I deluxe) have nearly the same price like a Haswell i3-4130T + socket 1150 Board. There is no reason to wait for Kabini. The i3-4130T is available now.

What a pity for AMD.

[HVR4000er]

Additional I want to say, the best offer available for an AMD based HTPC right now, is the Zotac E2-1800ITX-A-E. (passive cooled) In Europe €130,- this is really an attractive offer!
http://www.zotac.com/products/mini-pcs/z...eries.html

It's the old Zacate platform, but especially the graphics is boosted by both increasing RAM clock and GPU clock. (1333 and 680 MHz)
So I'm sure that the graphics beats Intel Bay Trail, but the cpu efficiency is lower.

[joelbaby]

I disagree. Intel Haswell Celeron / Pentium haves a castrated graphics. This is not the full featured HD4x00. But the TDP doesn't decrease.

Cool. Do you have a source for this information? The Intel specs I can find only say Intel HD Graphics, but not much more information. Also how do you know that the bits removed from the Celeron Haswell are relevant to a HTPC?? Eg. they may have removed 3D stuff for gaming, but kept in decoding for various codecs and the new support for 24.976 frame rates, or ... maybe they didn't. I can't find a reliable source for this information.

The best choice avalable for an allround HTPC is a Haswell i3-4130T including the full HD4400. (TDP 35W)

According to Intel ... the new i3 NUC has HD5000 graphics. Now ... this could be a misprint because some reviews say HD4400 and HD4600, but you can see it here:
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/pub...-brief.pdf

What a pity for AMD

Yes, and I think the AMD has incompatibility with Linux for graphics. For an HTPC it might be nice to run Linux instead of Windows 7 to reduce overhead.

[HVR4000er]

Cool. Do you have a source for this information? The Intel specs I can find only say Intel HD Graphics.

Since Sandy Bridge, the term "Intel HD Graphics" means the castrated version of HD2xxx / 3xxx / 4xxx graphics, used for low end Celeron / Pentium.

Also how do you know that the bits removed from the Celeron Haswell are relevant to a HTPC??

It's my point of view. It's my personality preference by comparing the different platforms:
If a castrated graphics is good enough for a small project, I would prefer a Bay Trail Pentium J with 3 times lower power consumption.
If I want to have a fairly powerful allround HTPC, I would prefer a full featured Haswell i3 T.
No need for a 35W TDP invalid only in order to save some Dollars. (Pentium J saves both some Dollars and much energy)

According to Intel ... the new i3 NUC has HD5000 graphics. Now ... this could be a misprint because some reviews say HD4400 and HD4600

The data sheets of the currently buyable Haswell i3 say HD4400 and HD4600. However, just I'm glad that Intel finally get the ability to build good IGP's.

[Robotica]

The best choice avalable for an allround HTPC is a Haswell i3-4130T including the full HD4400. (TDP 35W)

The best choice available for a small power saving HTPC will be the Bay Trail Pentium J2850.

the best offer available for an AMD based HTPC right now, is the Zotac E2-1800ITX-A-E. (passive cooled) In Europe €130,- this is really an attractive offer.

It's the old Zacate platform, but especially the graphics is boosted by both increasing RAM clock and GPU clock. (1333 and 680 MHz)
So I'm sure that the graphics beats Intel Bay Trail, but the cpu efficiency is lower.

Exactly!
I would like to add that those Celeron G1820T/Pentium G3420T are also calabele htpc's; they offer extra (excessive) CPU power at the expense of increased TDP and a GPU which isn't that futureproof.

Also I like to add those new NUC's are 100% feature complete but pricey. Only I'm not sure about the upgrade path with those soldered CPU's. But given all it's strenghts, it's not that significant.

Since I'm replacing my nas, they reason for me to wait is serving 4 streams of 1080p content to my clients. And thanks to "good enough computing" I'm also waiting on those Kabini offerings since I already know I would get an upgrade path to Kaveri with fm2+.

[HVR4000er]

I would like to add that those Celeron/Pentium are also calabele htpc's; they offer extra (excessive) CPU power

The Haswell Pentium G3420T is a Dual Core 2,7GHz probably without Hyper Threading.

The Bay Trail Pentium J2850 is a Quad Core 2,41 GHz without Hyper Threading.

So it may happen that the Pentium J in spite of the simplier architecture is not so much slower than Pentium G in multi threading benchmarks.

[Robotica]

Yes, in the end it's a matter of availability, price and preference. I.e do you like sata600 or pci-e3. Or do you prefer a lower TDP or a better GPU?

[joelbaby]

If I want to have a fairly powerful allround HTPC, I would prefer a full featured Haswell i3 T.
No need for a 35W TDP invalid only in order to save some Dollars. (Pentium J saves both some Dollars and much energy)

I am confused by what you are saying, because:

- The Haswell i3 NUC just released with i3-4010U processor has 15W TDP and HD4400 or HD5000 graphics (depending on which part of Intel website you look at).
- The BayTrail (Forest Canyon) NUC due to be released with Celeron N2810 has 7.5W TDP and Intel HD Graphics.

So the new NUC, based on BayTrail (which is the topic of this thread) - may have cut down graphics, but uses half the power.
Also I don't understand why a 35W i3 chip with full graphics should be more suitable for a HTPC than a 15W i3 chip with the same graphics in the NUC.