[jmarshall]

as you are probably aware, we used to have a "choose best resolution" option. this option has been renamed to "auto switch 16:9 and 4:3" though it still performs the identical function.

basically, we assess:

1. the aspect ratio of the movie.

this helps us auto-switch between 16:9 and 4:3.

2. the resolution of the movie

this helps us decide which video mode to use.

i personally think that number 2 is a waste of effort. if you have an output device (tv/projector) capable of 1080i or 720p, then we should upscale all the time. this uses hardware scaling, so it gives basically no performance hit at all. you generally get better output than you would if your projector or tv was upsampling (for instance you can change the filtering options etc. etc.)

i propose that we remove the option of selecting resolution based on source frame size and just upsample everything to whatever the gui is running in. the option "auto-switch 4:3 and 16:9" will ofcourse remain for those with 4:3 hdtvs that can auto-switch modes.

please vote your choice up above, and feel free to post any comments below.

thanks,
jonathan

[NEI]

i personally like this way also much better. but there should be an option to stop upsampling and play the movie in its original resolution. integrating this in the osd would be sweet.

[rpm]

i chose to always upsample!

just my opinon on how it should be done because you will notice a diffrence i am willing to bet.

[jmarshall]

nei:

playing a video in it's original resolution virtually never happens for most people, as we take into account the non-square pixel ratio of tvs (doesn't apply to 720p or 1080i 16x9 though), and we also take into account the calibration settings which are most often not (0,0). thus, the picture always needs to be scaled in some way anyway.

that's why i thought that upscaling all the way is probably best.

[Anomaly]

hmmm... i switched off that function because i was sure that xbmc was going back to something other than the 720p i have it set to. switched off, it seemed to give a better picture and not downgrade the screen resolution setting.

maybe i'm just confused. i assumed it was automatically scaled to whatever the screen resolution was.

[jmarshall]

perhaps i didn't make it clear.

the current situation works as follows:

if "choose best resolution" or "auto-switch widescreen" are enabled (they're the same thing) then xbmc will choose the resolution based on the source resolution. this will cause it to switch to 480p or whatever instead of staying in 720p/1080i.

if "choose best resolution" or "auto-switch widescreen" are disabled, then xbmc will just use whatever resolution it is currently in (ie will stay in 720p and upscale the video in hardware)

i figured that everybody would want to upsample all of the time.

i'll let the poll run for at least another couple of days before deciding what to do. it's often tricky to strike a balance between features and useability. imo this feature is not important enough to leave in - it's just too confusing for users.

hope this makes things clear.

[Anomaly]

ok, so for those of us that always use 16:9 and 720p/1080i, leaving the feature disabled (as i do) means that lower-res videos will always be upscaled in hardware. the side-effect that i mentioned comes from the "best" resolution being selected that is actually lower than the one you are using, so not very desirable.

i think the problem comes from what is your "normal" setting. if you have always use 4:3 i can see why you may want to get xbmc to switch to 16:9 etc when you run such a video. but, unless you had a widescreen tv you wouldn't want that anyway, and if you do own one, why would you be running anything other than 720p/1080i at 16:9 in the first place... whatever floats you boat i guess.

if it helps, i find that everything works just fine with it disabled. i have more of an issue with xbmc forgetting my zoom setting between videos. i am sure xbmp remembered... yeah i know, alpha stage.

great work - xbmc with a widescreen htdv is a wonder to behold.

edit: sorry - more careful study has reminded me that there are widescreen tvs that can't do 720p/1080i and also i had never heard of a 4:3 hdtv...weird. i see why you have to think well and hard about this issue.

[jmarshall]

yep. the whole point is that the one setting "auto-switch widescreen" currently does 2 things. the auto-switching thing is fine (good for those with widescreen tvs), but i see no point in not running in 720p or 1080i if the user has that ability. it's far better to stick to the highest resolution possible and then just switch between 4:3 and 16:9 if the user wants that.

so to sum up:

i'm proposing to leave the option to auto-switch between 4:3 and 16:9 in.

i'm proposing to remove the option to switch to a lower resolution than the gui is running in. everything will always be upscaled to 720p or 1080i.

[Anomaly]

thanks. sorry to hog your thread but i just had a thought about the 16:9/4:3 switching function. i realised that i have my widescreen hdtv permanently in "autozoom" mode which fiddles around with the zooming functions to get what it thinks is the best display. i bet that many other widescreen tv owners do likewise.

sooo, what i'm getting at is maybe this mode changing on xbmc an any stretching/zooming may get cancelled out or screwed up by my tv. i don't suppose you could explain what the zooming function does regarding picture scaling?. feel free to tell me to sod off and start a new thread. :d

[Troed]

this might be what anomaly tried to say .. (?)

720p is a widescreen-only mode. now guess what happens if the source data is anamorphic, and xbmc can't detect it.

correct - it's impossible to stretch the image to the correct aspect ration using the projector (i have a sanyo plv z2) and the stretch-etc options in xbmc seldom does what i think they ought to :/

so, there have been a few instances where i've had had xbmc automatically select 720p as the "best mode", and i've had to manually downgrade to 480p to be able to stretch and get the correct aspect ratio.

just wanted to mention that are any of the developers hdtv-users themselves?

[jmarshall]

if the source data is anamorphic, and xbmc can't detect it, then the source is wrong. use a container that contains correct aspect ratio data.

as for the zoom/stretch options, i agree that there is room for improvement here. i don't think the solution is lowering the resolution to try and get the current options to work.

perhaps some new options from the osd could be in order?

1. an aspect ratio adjustment option that works like the pixel ratio adjustment in screen calibration, but does not have square box. just allows simple altering of the aspect ratio of the current video. only applies to the video (we could possibly save the data into the video database).

2. a zoom+pan adjustment option. basically allows you to zoom + pan the image from the osd. once again saves the info into the video database for future use.

comments?

cheers,
jonathan

ps: no, afaik no current dev has an hdtv setup.

[iron chef]

i voted no though i see i am in the minority.

i have a 4:3 36" tube hdtv. i can run 480p and 1080i. my tv can "squeeze" so i can view anamorphic programming.

however -- i always run xbmc in 4:3 480p because the only skins i have seen look like crap at 1080i.

i would rather have the app stay in the mode i specify in the settings menus, unless i override it for a video. (can we get a key to toggle hd modes?)

maybe i just haven't seen the right skin yet. if i could leave the ui in 1080i then i would agree that we should stay in the highest rez mode available and just toggle 4:3 / 16:9.

[jmarshall]

iron chef:

thanks for explaining why you voted no. your explanation makes perfect sense.

yes, the gui may look crap in 1080i due to skinning problems. most of this can be eliminated easily by you the users. you are the ones with hdtv sets, so you are the ones that need to get together with the people doing the skinning and improve the situation. a lot of things can be altered just by altering the .xml files, and changing the font size.

i also suspect that this situation will improve once skinning tools for the pc come out that will allow current skinners to simulate their skins in other video modes.

i think the best thing for now is to leave the code as is, and take another look at the situation once the skin situation has improved.

for now, what i will do is add an option to the internal settings to separate out the resolution downs/up scaling from the widescreen switching. it won't be changeable from the gui, but it will allow those who want 16:9/4:3 switching but don't want to otherwise change resolutions, and those who want resolution changing but not 16:9/4:3 switching to have their cake and eat it as well

i'll document how to do it when i've put the small amount of code in.

[Anomaly]

well, speaking of hdtv/widescreen user input on skinning issues, myself and one other member have had an thread open on why the page count icon is in the wrong place for widescreen, 720p for quite a while now, with no suggestions. is there a better place to ask about which .xml file to adjust where to move such an object? i am quite happy to experiment with settings myself (and report back a solution) but i just cannot find the place to edit.

the hdtv/16:9 support is much better in xbmc than xbmp and with some help we could make it perfect.

[jmarshall]

anomaly:

as a guess, i'd find it in references.xml

i believe that the spin control for the page numbers is incorporated into the listcontrols. (same for the thumbpanel controls).

it should be fairly obvious what to change.

things will become heaps easier once a pc based skinning preview tool is available.

cheers,
jonathan