XBMC Linux port questions and answers...

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mace Offline
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Post: #31
Even if it is way to early to decide on hardware I would like to point out one benefit of the EPIA series. The Eden E-series are fanless boards. This would open the possibility for a really silent box using a 2.5" drive and an eden board.
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skruven Offline
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Post: #32
swmike Wrote:Under linux it's easy to make a wrapper using "rarfs" to get this working. I use this with Freevo to make mplayer play media files within rar archives.

It means you have to play using some filesystem mount, so no ccxstream or alike.

Today i use a smb-share to stream my rar-archives from my fileserver. Im just happy if I can continue with that on another platform. Smile

I just hope that this feature will be integrated in the port when its finished.
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_max_ Offline
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Post: #33
i don't belive its a good idea to use a Fatality motherboard as a base for XBMC, why? well its bloated, it will probably not be sold after 6 months (and you will then have to support yet another platform (with other errors and bugs). The good thing about the xbox is thats its been pretty static from day one. Going with a game-console or other settop box thats likely to be sold for another 5-10 years is more likely the best option. Who wants a huge buzzing machine in there living room?

The apple-tv or mac-mini seem to be very good candidates, both are "pretty" cheep, apple-tv even has a h264 decoder onboard (nice for watching x264/h264 content) and have wlan etc for those people who wanna risk using that. Sure Apple-tv doesn't have a huge harddrive onboard but im guessing most people use an external server anyway and stream via smb.

Comparing the mac-mini and appletv against a complete computer,

price: apple-tv (300 bucks?), computer atleast 1000 bucks.
noise: apple-tv (no fans..), computer..cpu, psu, gpu, hdd cooling..
space: apple-tv is the size of a dvd-case.. a computer is huge in comparison.
speed: apple-tv 1ghz but onboard h264 decoder, a computer you can upgrade.

id say apple-tv wins 3 to 1 Smile

I'v orderd a apple-tv today, im asof writing creating a LFS distro that will support ONLY apple-tv hardware for ultrafast booting that XBMC can be loaded onto. (using USB boot on apple-tv wont void the warrenty)
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t029248 Offline
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Post: #34
_max_ Wrote:i don't belive its a good idea to use a Fatality motherboard as a base for XBMC, why? well its bloated, it will probably not be sold after 6 months (and you will then have to support yet another platform (with other errors and bugs). The good thing about the xbox is thats its been pretty static from day one. Going with a game-console or other settop box thats likely to be sold for another 5-10 years is more likely the best option. Who wants a huge buzzing machine in there living room?

The apple-tv or mac-mini seem to be very good candidates, both are "pretty" cheep, apple-tv even has a h264 decoder onboard (nice for watching x264/h264 content) and have wlan etc for those people who wanna risk using that. Sure Apple-tv doesn't have a huge harddrive onboard but im guessing most people use an external server anyway and stream via smb.

Comparing the mac-mini and appletv against a complete computer,

price: apple-tv (300 bucks?), computer atleast 1000 bucks.
noise: apple-tv (no fans..), computer..cpu, psu, gpu, hdd cooling..
space: apple-tv is the size of a dvd-case.. a computer is huge in comparison.
speed: apple-tv 1ghz but onboard h264 decoder, a computer you can upgrade.

id say apple-tv wins 3 to 1 Smile

I'v orderd a apple-tv today, im asof writing creating a LFS distro that will support ONLY apple-tv hardware for ultrafast booting that XBMC can be loaded onto. (using USB boot on apple-tv wont void the warrenty)

I'm more interested in a future mac mini with HDMI, it could be more expensive, but i will be more powerful the AppleTV:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertai...228814.php

I hope this will evolve in the next gen XBMC platform Linux distribution! AngryWink
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szsori Offline
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Post: #35
_max_ Wrote:Who wants a huge buzzing machine in there living room?
I have a HTPC that I use in a different room instead of my Xbox. It actually runs quieter than the Xbox. Not saying it's silent, but it's far more easy to customize a PC to make it silent than customizing a console or STB.

_max_ Wrote:price: apple-tv (300 bucks?), computer atleast 1000 bucks.
A computer that's just sufficient to decode h264 content can be found for far less than $1000. Shuttle has really high end stuff for HTPC applications for $1000 that looks really nice, but I personally built mine in a nice Coolermaster case for under $700.

_max_ Wrote:space: apple-tv is the size of a dvd-case.. a computer is huge in comparison.
Once again, not all of them.

I do like the Apple TV device and think it looks pretty cool, but you're extremely limited compared to a PC or Mac Mini. The thing that the Mac Mini/Apple TV fans keep forgetting is that there are plenty of sufficient PC options as well that run considerably cheaper. They look as nice and are more flexible as far as which hardware you can use with them. I'm not saying that a PC is definitely the way to go... I'm just saying that you folks need to be more accurate with your comparisons and "facts".

I still think the way to go would be to have one of the XBMC devs talk to Shuttle (or another reputable company) and ask if they can develop a device with the exact specifications they want. Any company would be likely to jump on the opportunity since they'd be guaranteed to sell at least a few hundred of the computers just to the XBMC crowd. If the number of buyers was predetermined, perhaps we'd also be able to get additional discounts.
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szsori Offline
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Post: #36
Oh... another option. Just make a "Live CD" that supports all of the more standard hardware (popular video cards, sound cards, lan cards, etc) and then support a single type of video capture card and game controller/remote. This would allow users to make/buy the system they really want to use without significantly increasing the number of linux-specific support requests. I love the idea of having a XBMC Live USB key as well. Smile
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ultrabrutal Offline
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Post: #37
how about drivers for the wireless xbox360 controller with the keyboard attached. would feel more like xbmc and then there would be some xbox left in it Wink

btw aopen did a mac mini clone awhile back. a quick googles shows this:

http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/31/aopen...l-trouble/
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pike Offline
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Post: #38
Are we excited ?

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Gamester17 Offline
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Lightbulb  Limiting official support for end-user to TWO locked-down hardware platforms
Post: #39
I have been thinking about this during the last couple of days. I now like to argue that besides the 'good old' Xbox (and possible future ports to PS3 and Xbox 360 which I do not think we should discuss in this specific topic-thread), when the Linux port of XBMC becomes mature enough for end-users to fully use it will probebely be a very good idea to keep two (and only two) specific 'locked-down' x86-based computer platforms (or motherboard) with different specifications and differently priced as the 'locked-down' concrete reference hardware and the sole computer platform that Team-XBMC will officialy support. Smart would probebely be to have one relativly inexpensive ($500 USD or less) low-end computer hardware model and one expensive ($1500 USD or less) high-end computer hardware model, both with clearly specified minimum requirements and exactly detailed hardware parts, (that way the users can let their needs and size of their pockets decide which model to go for).

I think that low-end model should be fanless and at least capable to playback H.264 encoded video at 720p native resolution but also capable to upscale all video to 1080i, and have at least have optical-audio, component and DVI or HDMI ports. The high-end model should be capable to playback H.264 encoded video at 1080p native resolution and also capable to upscale all video to 1080p, and have at least have optical-audio, component and HDMI/HDCP ports. The low-end computer hardware model should not be required to have a DVD-ROM drive, while the high-end model on the other hand should be required required to have a DVD-ROM drive. Niether the low-end or the high-end computer hardware should nieter be required to required to have a harddisk-drive, but both should be required to be able to boot from a USB-key and completly run the operating-system and XBMC (plus any other applications) from there. The hardware's lifle-cycle should also be as long as possible, meaning new ones should be should in retail stores for years to come, (that is why a game-console hardware makes a perfect sense to use as a reference model).

Today Apple TV (from Apple) already fills all of those given requirements for the low-end computer hardware model, and on top of that it only costs $300 USD. I do think that would make the perfect reference platform, (the only 'issue' I see is that it does not have a LCD-display on the box itself but that could always be case modded if one wants it). The minimum requirements I given above for the high-end computer hardware model is however harder to meet today (especially the long life-cycle part), so I do not think that model should be set in stone just yet. I do however think that the upcoming update model of the Mac Mini from Apple will possibly make a great high-end model candidate, I think it will probebly come down to the retail price that will be set for it when it is released this fall, (and if it so happens to come with a HD DVD and/or Blu-ray disc-reader as an option that would not hurt either), ...yes I know that the PlayStation 3 (PS3) premium-edition game-console hardware also fills those requirements, but it might automaticly have to be ruled out because of the combining issues like it is not an full open platform; with non open source device-drivers and the PS3 hypervisor is limiting Linux on it to 2D graphics and low-level access to the hardware, plus the fact that processor (CPU) is not x86-based but instead PowerPC-based Cell processor which could make development applications for it harder and more time-consuming.

Quote:Apple TV hardware details of Revision A (manufacured from the 9th of January 2007):
* Power usage: 48 watt
* Intel-processor (Pentium M (model 723) at 1.0GHz with 2MB Level-2 cache)
* Nvidia GeForce Go 7300 (64MB VRAM, made up of two GDDR3 memory chips running at 700MHz) (source)
* 256MB RAM (made up of four 64MB DDR2 SDRAM running at 400MHz)
* Harddrive: 40GB (with 2MB buffer memory) 2.5" in size and running at 4200rpm
* Network:
** Ethernet (10/100Mbps)
**802.11 b, g, n wireless network (Apple AirPort) (using a Broadcom chip)
*Ports back:
*USB 2.0
**HDMI-outport (using a Silicon Image TMDS-transmitter chip) can be converted to DVI via adapter
**Component video
**S/PDIF digitalt optical-audio
**RCA analog-aduio (left and right for stereo)
*Ports front:
**IR-port for the Apple Remote Control that comes with

Know though that no matter what platform we choose as the locked-down computer hardware, since this XBMC Linux port will run as an application end-users and developers a like will of course be able to run it on any computer hardware they like, they will just not get any support with problems from Team-XBMC, nor will we fix bugs on other that only occur on the computer hardware other than the two specified locked-down reference models. If this XBMC Linux port will be distributed as an official Live CD (LiveDistro) bundled with the Linux operating-system to futher lock-down of the static constant system enviroment then only that Live CD distro will be officialy supported by Team-XBMC, and it will thus stripped down as much as possible to keep the size and potential compatibily issues down (by ripping out device drivers, etc. that will not be needed unless we would intend to support multiple hardware platforms).

PS! I'm have now moved this topic-thread from the XBMC Development Forum to the XBMC to the XBMC General Discussion Forum since the discussion har clearly spun away from code and programming, also only developers should really start new topic-threads in the developement. So feel free to continue this broad general questions/answers and discussion about the different aspects of what porting XBMC to Linux could/will bring.

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.
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pike Offline
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Post: #40
does linux for AppleTV have 3d accelerated drivers ?
Reason I ask is because we're leaning towards making this a requirement.

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LiquidIce629 Offline
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Post: #41
All of the available information about the Apple TV's hardware and linux can be found here:
http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/Linux_on_Apple_TV

yes, it does support hardware acceleration in linux with the stock NVIDIA drivers. I've already got my ATV, hacked and ready for linux. Let me know when you need testers Laugh

This thread has gotten me extremely excited about XBMC again. Keep up the great work guys!
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nate12o6 Offline
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Post: #42
I hate the fact that we are debating hardware specs this early so this is not a request for a port to the ps3 but only a question about the cell processor. Does anybody know how good the cell processor could decode or even encode video? It seams like it would be built for that. But i also here horrer stories about how hard it is to develope for.
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LiquidIce629 Offline
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Post: #43
Where is the edit button on this message board? I stand corrected, it looks like the NVIDIA library for linux only supports MPEG2 hardware acceleration... so it looks like there will be some work to do to get it playing any kind of high res video in linux.

Quote:The Linux NVidia binary drivers are not documented to support anything but MPEG2 offloading, so PureVideo is currently unsupported for Linux.

There is also Apple TV bootloader information here for anyone interested: http://www.mythic-beasts.com/resources/a...b_boot_tv/
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pike Offline
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Post: #44
PS3 would be so mint
REAL SHAME they have disabled GPU access. This is a much bigger issue than people seem to realize. Accelerated gpu drivers aren't only needed for a powerful skinning engine, it's definetely REQUIRED to get proper (accelerated) video playback. Please note, this has not so much to do with which videocodec is used.


nate12o6 Wrote:I hate the fact that we are debating hardware specs this early so this is not a request for a port to the ps3 but only a question about the cell processor. Does anybody know how good the cell processor could decode or even encode video? It seams like it would be built for that. But i also here horrer stories about how hard it is to develope for.

Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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nate12o6 Offline
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Post: #45
question #2

I know the xbmc team has talked with microsoft about getting a dev liscence and where denied. Would you say the chances with sony would also be 0?
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