[Spall]

Hey all,

Longtime Kodi user here. My current box is an Intel NUC NUC7CJYHN (Celeron J4025 I think) running LibreELEC. I'm also using an AppleTV 4K (might be 2nd gen, def not 3rd) for streaming services. I have a Denon AVR-X2300W that I use to switch HDMI and get Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA.

I'm going to be buying my first 4K TV in the coming weeks. It's my understanding that the Denon will pass through HDR/DV content. I can't go direct to TV and retain the audio support as the Denon only has ARC and not eARC.

My question is:  Is there a box suggestion that will allow me to display HDR and DV content (stored locally on my network via unRAID) while continuing to pass through my Denon? i.e. Can I have the visual goodies and keep my audio the way it is? It doesn't sound like LibreELEC will let me do this. If the new box can also replace the ATV for streaming content, that's fine. It doesn't strictly need to unless there's a limitation of the ATV I don't yet understand because I've been mired in TV research.

If there's something else I'm not thinking of/understanding, that feedback would also be great.

EDIT: my ATV is a 1st gen ATV 4K

Thanks everyone for your time,
-S

[izprtxqkft]

if you want Dolby Vision, it is going to be an Android box - whether or not that android box is running Android or CoreELEC

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=372462

that should reduce the options down to a few


the "-K" amlogic variants work with CoreELEC for dolby vision

but no profile 7 (which is a larger number of DV from 4K bluray than profile 8) from Android natively, Kodi will play them on android (non-native)

these boxes do tend to have some audio issues

these are Homatics and Rocktek G2, a Nokia box too but i forget the model

here's the thread for the Rocktek - https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=373812


FireTV Cube Gen3 is supporting everything under Kodi Alpha right now, DV+Passthrough audio - but this is not the popular choice, i like it for my setup but it is either use the ad-filled home or a plain vanilla on a rooted one

i have no test results for any of those with a Denon


-----

i will allow someone else to come fill in the blanks on an nvidia shield - i think it works but i cant say because i have never owned one

[Spall]

Thanks for the info. So it sounds like the choices are somewhat less than ideal.

I was hoping someone would chime in as you said about the Shield. I'm not super familiar with it as an alternative.

Unfortunately, Amazon devices are a no go in my house. Though I suppose I could look into what it takes to root one if it can strip out all the Amazon-ness of it. Or I guess if it ends up being the only good option, I could isolate it on a network with limited internet access. That's more config than I'd like to get myself into.

[selfcontained]

Just to amplify what @izprtxqkft stated, Dolby Vision HDR (profile 7 with or without FEL; profile 8.1; or profile 5) can only be played on Android devices with Dolby-licensed blobs. All DV profile 7 gets converted on-the-fly to, basically, profile 8.1 where metadata is all in RPU and no enhancement layers (whether FEL or MEL). Even CoreELEC's Dolby Vision HDR capabilities require it to be installed on an Android-having box.

One execption to RPU-only metadata are the Kodi builds by Monsoon that can playback actual FEL from profile 7 on two devices (Ugoos AM6B+ or MINIX U22X-J or the "Max" version of the MINIX - basically the same device).

I'm not familiar with the Denon AVR-X2300W, but the NVIDIA Shield Pro (2019 model) can send Dolby Vision profile 8.1, profile 5, HDR10, & SDR out through it's HDMI port. What happens to it after that is dependant on other devices in the chain - but for Dolby Vision, every link in the chain must have Dolby licensed Blobs.

[Spall]

Hmm.  Sounds like Shield Pro might be my best for my Kodi needs then. If I'm understanding things correctly, it will play DV titles through Kodi, and should bitstream Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA. Someone correct me if I am mistaken, please.

Unfortunately, it looks like in my other reading it has any issue switching frame rates to match content for apps outside of Kodi. So I guess I'd have to keep my AppleTV in the chain.

I appreciate the info you guys dropped in here. Thanks.

[selfcontained]

I'm afraid I can't speak to it's abilities in the audio department - my audio chain is NVIDIA audio out over HDMI to TV to TOSLINK out from TV to Zvox AV157 soundbar. I'm primarily concerned with dialog improvement. But so far at least, every file's audio has played without issue - but whether it is passing or converting audio - I don't know.

The Shield has an "experimental" auto frame-rate matching setting for non-Kodi apps. Not sure how well it works as I only use Kodi to play files from external storage. Sorry.

[Spall]

Well, I guess all I can do is try it out.. and buy from a place with easy returns

Thanks again.

[Spall]

Just to circle back to this, if I decided to not care about DV, but I have DV content, it should default down to HDR10 yeah?

Or rather, I could just keep using my NUC with LibreELEC and still get an HDR experience even if the media is in DV? (I am new to 4K/HDR).  While I'm in the wait period for my new TV to be delivered, I'm trying to decide if I _should_ care about DV.

[selfcontained]

If your playback device and your display can handle HDR10 then:

video files in the DV HDR profile 7 (with MEL or FEL) will either playback as DV HDR 8.1 (if using Kodi 21.0 beta 1) or as HDR10

video files in the DV HDR profile 8.1 should also fallback to HDR10

video files in the DV profile 5 will have screwy colors (they use a different colorspace) - tonemapping may or may not help.


This ought to work whether you're using a NUC w/LibreELEC, Vero w/OSMC, Pi w/OSMC, AMLogic-based SBC or box with CoreELEC, or any other Android device

("ought to" being the operative phrase.)

[selfcontained]

Sorry, that wasn't very clear.

If you won't have a full Dolby Vision HDR chain (device & display) then DV HDR files will playback as HDR10 given the following conditions:

1. the DV HDR mp4 or mkv files are not "hybrid" or have had the hdr10 level ripped out and the RPU mangled
2. DV HDR profile 7 (with a minimal or full enhancement layer)
3. DV HDR profile 8.1

DV HDR profile 4 will fallback as SDR (I've never seen one of these in the wild though.)
DV HDR profile 5 will likely have jacked up colors and your playback device &/or display's tonemapping may or may not help.

Most any device that has Kodi 19+ and an up-to-date OS should be able to play HDR10; the crux of the issue is whether your setup witll gracefully playback DV HDR content in some acceptable form of HDR (or in the case of DV HDR profile 4 - as SDR.)

[Spall]

First, thanks for chiming in again!

Couple of questions on your last comment:

1) What do you mean by hybrid. Without understanding HDR at all, my initial thought on seeing "hybrid" would be that is supports both DV and HDR. Your comment implies that is not the case.
2) To be clear, you're saying files that are DV profile 7 or 8.1 _should_ fall back to HDR10?
3) What content is generally DV profile 5?
4) How do I determine what profile something is in?

I had picked up a Shield Pro, but I have not opened it yet and I'm seriously considering just using my existing NUC and ATV for stuff and see if something new shakes.

Really appreciate your time.

[selfcontained]

There are mkv & mp4 files that I've seen marked as 'hybrid' that include metadata from various HDR types (DV & HDR10+, or 1080p files with HDR metadata or other combinations or exclusions) - these *might* work but might not.

DV profiles 7 & 8.1 contain the HDR10 base layer and so should usually at least playback with proper HDR10. However, as any file you're likely to find (unless you are ripping your own UHDs) someone has converted/modded, etc. the file to work on non-disc playback environments so how things are supposed to work may not be so (but a UHD DV HDR disc will playback at a minimum of HDR10 on non-DV certified components.)

DV profile 5 is a streaming format without a real HDR10 base laer and has a different color space and won't always play with proper colors on non-DV equipment. That's where your device, Kodi, and your display come in - they can help but not always.

Almost all content will have in its title whether it is DV and what profile or whether it is just hdr10 or sdr. Checking video files with MediaInfo https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo will always let you know.

However, the wider point you should keep in mind is that it only makes sense to get new equipment if your current kit doesn't support the media you have. Buying equipment to "future-proof" your setup doesn't make a lot of sense as things change in this hobby every few years. Myself, I always budget under the assumption that I'll replace a TV every 7-9 years and a playback device every 4-5 years. Don't get me wrong, I love my Shield but I don't do any streaming. If I subscribed to any streaming service I'd likely be very happy with the Apple TV 4K as it does system-level frame-rate/refresh-rate changing better than most everything. My pet peeve is 24p judder, flicker, & stutter. The last two are addressed by your display but you need a HDMI source that has proper frame/refresh-rate handling to help the display knock out judder. ATV does that very well for streaming. Point is, you need to assess what is most important to you and plan your kit accordingly.

There's tons of HDR content out there - DV HDR is fantastic but fidgety to get right. HDR10 looks great too and there are noticeable differences between the various HDR types and SDR but there don't come around as much as the marketers would have you believe. Hell, even SDR properly done can look much better than HDR improperly done. By a lot.

[Spall]

To make sure I got it:

1) Hybrid files are a crap shoot
2) 7 and 8.1 should play HDR10 fine unless someone mucked with it. I assume remux _should_ be fine?
3) 5 is for streaming services and will probably not be right, but since I'm not streaming with my Kodi box and I have an ATV 4K 3rd gen, Netflix/Disney+/etc should just play DV fine?

I get your point about the "media you have". As this is my first 4K TV, I don't have _any_ 4K or HDR media. That will change when the new TV shows up. I wouldn't have even changed TVs, but mine decided it was time to retire. I don't, at this point, even have a UHD player or media. One thing at a time.

I've just been second guessing the need for the Shield from the rest of the user experience point of view vs an x86 box with LibreELEC like I've used for years.

[selfcontained]

1. I think so
2. yes
3. part one - DV profile 5 is plentiful on torrent index sites - I'm not advocating pirating but just pointing out they're out there and can be played on DV certified devices from stand-alone .mp4/.mkv files
3. part two - your ATV 4K 3rd-gen will provide the best experience with Netflix/Disney+ et. al. on your DV certified TV

Honestly if you didn't care at all about HDR of any sort, I'd say keep using your x86/NVIDIA/LibreELEC environment. I had a HTPC for years (Windows based but still) and loved how well it worked especially how well it worked on the GUI. My Shield can really slow down navigating a huge library as its single-thread Python performance is pretty meh.

[Spall]

Ok. I think I'm getting it.

I honestly don't know if I care about HDR having never lived with it.

That's disappointing about the Shield GUI slow down. I have a massive library on my unRAID server. I used to buy _a lot_ of DVD/BD, especially Criterion, and have ripped my entire collection. I suspect, based on what you're saying, it would slow down for me.

Out of curiosity, if profile 5 is on the streaming services, and doesn't have an HDR10 base layer: what do people do without DV capable sets? Is the choice on the streaming services DV or SDR only? Do they even stream in 4k/SDR or are you upscaling 1080p at that point?? When I was shopping for the new TV I noticed some sets don't support DV (I'm looking at you, Samsung).