Thumbnails not loading until Total Duration is Calculated
#1
Hello,

this is my first post and i have searched and cannot find any other mentions of this. I have upgraded to Frodo yesterday and now when i go into my movies it seem to calculate the total duration of movies each time before showing thumbs and fan art (it shows a standard video thumb until its done). its only aroun 4-5 seconds but its never been on there before and im sure its linked to total duration as soon as thats done it shows my thumbnails?

i also installed it on a raspberry pi and that takes around 2-3 minutes before opening the movies each time. not sure if that is doing the same but is slower as it doesnt have the processing power?

i dont really need total duration so am happy for it to be removed if someone can point me in the right direction in the setttings or xml file.
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#2
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incase im not explaining it very well this is what i get until total duration completes.
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#3
Bump - has nobody else come across this, surely im not eh only one. i have tried reinstalling from scratch and adding the library again
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#4
This is due to the way xbmc will load additional data (like thumbnail information) for each element in your database.
It will create a list of jobs that are done in the background (in your example 4-5 sec).

As for the raspberry pi, it can take longer on it due to its power.
This is also affected by lan/wlan as it has to create a connection to the database (i assume you are using mysql) for each job.
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#5
The other thing that doesnt get generated until total duration is calculated is the SD/HD flag and media flagging images in case you using other views. If you notice you have no media flagging showing (the resolution/codec/audio/resolution/aspect ratio)

This happens with TV shows most noticeably when in viwing all episodes in library using another view other than fanart.

I would rate this as a bug but Im sure developers would call this a feature. Because this supposedly list of jobs, in case of tv shows you have to leave it in the root of each tv show for much longer than 4 or 5 seconds in order to calculate for e.g. 100 episodes worth of total duration in case of 100 episodes you need to wait at same location 2 or 3 minutes depending on platform and then caching all thumbs its another millennium and navigation done.

uNi
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#6
Thank you thank you thank you

I thought I was the only one bothered by this.

I created a thread, but no one replied: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=155173

I also created an entry in trac (5 weeks ago), no one acknowledged it: http://trac.xbmc.org/ticket/14084

It doesn't happen with smart playlists even if the same exact info is displayed. To me it is clearly a bug. I wish it was fixed in the 12.1 release.
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#7
Im not surprised no one acknowledged anything in trac, Ive reported bugs more than 5 weeks ago and no one replied to those either. It rather pointless reporting bugs tbh, and very disappointing and frustrating.

It was by chance I saw your forum post and replied because Ive noticed this in Tv shows. but I wouldnt go expecting anything from these bug reports seems no one is reading them until its time to close them.
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#8
Thank you for the responses, i understand it needs to load additional data but how was it handled in 11, i never had this issue before with the same library size. i didnt notice the media flags before but think i might turn that off see if improves.

surely once its cached once it could keep the items cached, but i cant see why it needs to do it everytime you go in and out of movies/tv shows
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#9
YOu dont need to do it everytime just needs to spend enough time in each root calculating and caching stuff.
I agree the way it is is much less inneficinet and takes 20 times longer or more, getting all the information.

uNi
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#10
I agree. Frodo's thumbnail handling is very slow. It's frustrating when you are browsing through the library and mostly see the default poster. My friends and family always ask me what's wrong with my system.

Even worse is we are forced to use the Artwork Downloader addon in some situations. I had to re-install OpenELEC on of my systems and the only way I can get all my thumbs back is to run the that addon even though I have local artwork for all my movies. Problem is that some of my movies have custom covers with transparency so they are named poster.png (which Frodo supports) and the Artwork addon doesn't support that and I'm told they won't change it. So I have to manually go and refresh each of those movies manually. I don't understand being forced to use an addon.

IMO the whole thumbnail system is a PITA right now and detracts from XBMC.
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#11
(2013-03-20, 14:22)RockDawg Wrote: Even worse is we are forced to use the Artwork Downloader addon in some situations. I had to re-install OpenELEC on of my systems and the only way I can get all my thumbs back is to run the that addon even though I have local artwork for all my movies. Problem is that some of my movies have custom covers with transparency so they are named poster.png (which Frodo supports) and the Artwork addon doesn't support that and I'm told they won't change it. So I have to manually go and refresh each of those movies manually. I don't understand being forced to use an addon.

IMO the whole thumbnail system is a PITA right now and detracts from XBMC.

You should't have to manually refresh your movies after the first time. If you have them set up with the proper posters you want in XBMC, and then do an export of your library with all artwork to separate files, it will save it in the proper format that artwork downloader suppports. Then it will pick them up properly every time instead of having to change your posters manually.
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#12
(2013-03-20, 12:33)uNiversal Wrote: YOu dont need to do it everytime just needs to spend enough time in each root calculating and caching stuff.
I agree the way it is is much less inneficinet and takes 20 times longer or more, getting all the information.

uNi

I understand the duration calculation and the retrieval and caching of all that stuff, but. . .

If you create a smartplaylist with the entire movie or tv show library, when you enter that, it still does the total duration calculation, however, the artwork for the currently selected item is displayed before the duration calculation (correct behavior)

But when you enter the actual library, the artwork for the currently selected item does not get displayed until the duration calculation is completed. And it can take a long time if you have a large library 1000+ movies and also if you're on wifi.

In my opinion, the timing or order of events is messed up and that's the bug

Thanks
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#13
(2013-03-20, 15:19)dpar Wrote:
(2013-03-20, 14:22)RockDawg Wrote: Even worse is we are forced to use the Artwork Downloader addon in some situations. I had to re-install OpenELEC on of my systems and the only way I can get all my thumbs back is to run the that addon even though I have local artwork for all my movies. Problem is that some of my movies have custom covers with transparency so they are named poster.png (which Frodo supports) and the Artwork addon doesn't support that and I'm told they won't change it. So I have to manually go and refresh each of those movies manually. I don't understand being forced to use an addon.

IMO the whole thumbnail system is a PITA right now and detracts from XBMC.

You should't have to manually refresh your movies after the first time. If you have them set up with the proper posters you want in XBMC, and then do an export of your library with all artwork to separate files, it will save it in the proper format that artwork downloader suppports. Then it will pick them up properly every time instead of having to change your posters manually.

What are you calling the "first time"? I use a mysql central library for each of my machines. On all my other machines the library and covers are correct. My one other machine experienced a borked update of OpenELEC and I was forced to start from scratch and re-install OE from scratch. After setting it back up and connecting to the mysql db, I had no thumbs at all. I even copied the entire Thumbnails folder from one of my working machines to this one and I still got no thumbs. I ran the AD addon and my thumbs showed, except for all the movies where the poster was a .png file. On those movies Ad went out and downloaded new posters. So for those, I will have to refresh each movie manually to get XBMC to use my local file.

I haven't tried exporting the library yet, but I don't understand why i should need to. I already have local thumbs for every movie. Why would I want/need another copy? And you say it will export in a format that AD understands, well AD seems to want poster.jpg and if it converts my png files to jpg then the transparency will be lost and they will look like crap.

Why does XBMC calculate the duration when you enter the library? What's the purpose. How did you guys figure out that is what is happening?
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#14
idk why XBMC is doing it this way, but I noticed some flags werent showing up for some tv shows then I noticed the duration time cycling up and flags showing up as the duration time was calculated. IMO it should all be done irrespective where you are in XBMC but I guess it only works when you enter the library or viweing root of Movies or Tv show in question.

uNi
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#15
Quote:If you create a smartplaylist with the entire movie or tv show library, when you enter that, it still does the total duration calculation, however, the artwork for the currently selected item is displayed before the duration calculation (correct behavior)

But when you enter the actual library, the artwork for the currently selected item does not get displayed until the duration calculation is completed. And it can take a long time if you have a large library 1000+ movies and also if you're on wifi.

I'm not sure how this can be, as the exact same code is being run in both cases. To rule out things that may not be obvious, try starting XBMC from scratch and going into movies. Then start from scratch and go into the smartplaylist. The behaviour should be identical.

The counting of duration has nothing to do with this, though it _appears_ as though it does. The logic is as follows:

1. Run through a list of items. For each item:
2. Fetch stream details if already in the db (db lookup per item).
3. Fetch thumb details if already in the db (db lookup per item).
4. Check for missing art on disk if not available (only if 3 returns no results).
5. Calculate stream details if not available.
6. Move onto the next item.

The actual loading of art is done in a separate thread, so can potentially occur directly after step 3 of the first item in the list - there's no need for it to get all the way to the end of the list, except for the last item in the list (this is why if you go directly into a list to the last item it takes longer for the art to show up).

In addition, several other things might slow it down - the processing through the list and access to the db is reasonably IO heavy, and so is loading a .jpg off disk, so is loading other images associated with the items and so on. If you are using mysql over a high latency connection, then those db queries are going to be quite slow so this will be made quite a bit worse. And most obviously, if art hasn't yet been cached, it will take quite a bit longer. The same if stream details have not yet been computed. This is a one-off though.

As always, there's some ways that could improve it. For a start, we should do steps 1-3 in a separate loop from steps 4-5, as that's fetching all the stuff that's already available, which should be much quicker. That way, should steps 4 and 5 be stuck on an item that doesn't exist or something the rest of the process doesn't get held up. This sounds easy, but isn't due to the way things are setup - needs a bit of refactoring to do it nicely which I just didn't have time for pre-Frodo.

Lastly, Eden _appeared_ faster due to several reasons:
1. Art was done synchronously - you didn't get the list back until the art was already set on it. (i.e. the list appeared slower, but when it appeared all art was already set on the items, so just needed loading off disk).
2. A single piece of art was available per item (or two if fanart was included). Frodo includes arbitrary amounts of art.
3. No db queries were required due to step 2 - instead a stat() of the local filesystem was enough. This also lead to know way at all to know where the cached art came from, thus no auto-updating art, no record of the source of art and no way to clean art out properly after the fact.

Cheers,
Jonathan
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