2014-02-23, 22:39
I have never ever read another thread with so much misinformation ... I don't even try to argue with the OPs ...
2014-02-23, 22:43
(2014-02-23, 22:39)fritsch Wrote: I have never ever read another thread with so much misinformation ... I don't even try to argue with the OPs ...Maybe, you can offer some info. He might find your info useful....
2014-02-23, 23:07
(2014-02-23, 22:39)fritsch Wrote: I have never ever read another thread with so much misinformation ... I don't even try to argue with the OPs ...
I have never ever read another response (from a team-xbmc member) with so little information - as bluray has suggested, why not offer some actual assistance.
2014-02-23, 23:08
(2014-02-23, 22:39)fritsch Wrote: I have never ever read another thread with so much misinformation ... I don't even try to argue with the OPs ...
Wow, such helpfulness.
Seriously though. Im not an expert on XBMC and the way it reports its inner technical stuff, I know that I have TV and a computer that support proper playback on every possible framerate I could want, and what I see is not smooth, and seems my XBMC is properly configured.
If XBMC supposedly supports playback perfectly synced to the display refresh rate, its definitely not working here, its something you could easily notice without any technical info on screen, just by the choppiness of the movement on pan scenes.
Other than that, without knowing much about how XBMC reports what its doing, I would expect no errors, no speed differences, a stable framerate 23.976 framerate or at least 24.00, just resample the audio if its going to make it smooth.
2014-02-25, 06:48
kourampies. welcome to the xbmc fun. You *should* have no problem getting 23.976 fps on windows. Or close to it. I am very picky when it comes to playback. That GPU is stout for that task. CCC likely is set up wrong or you have a bad version of their driver. Also Gotham plays back much better. The source is much more up to date. I played with frodo for a bit on my 7750 but gotham is much better. It is in alpha but it has been good for me. You can back up user data folder if nervous, see wiki. My My main box is a win7 machine, 955be ati7750 spdif pass-thru, gotham has been stable for me.
Assuming your panel can do 24p.
1 try Gotham. Too many fixes.
2 goto CCC choose quality - disable all filters, add back later if needed, each filter hurts performance.
Disable automatic deinterlacing, slide bar from left to right. Left is easiest on GPU. Right is vector adaptive (VA) best quality but hardest. Not sure your apu can do VA on 1080i content.
3- open xbmc settings-> playback (enable expert mode), choose. Dxva2, adjust refresh to match- always, sync to display yes, av sync DUP/drop..
4- system > system > video output > display mode- full screen #1, verticals sync - always on.
System > audio output , choose the Hdmi direct sound, disable pass through.
5) create an advanced setting.XML file. You must create a latency delay if you have av sync or lipsync issues from hardware delays. My avr has delay with anything, BR, set top, etc...
I will post up my file.
This is what works for me..
Auto-Deinterlacing is another topic. Doable, but if done wrong PQ stinks. 24p the topic here is progressive anyways, so not needed.
Assuming your panel can do 24p.
1 try Gotham. Too many fixes.
2 goto CCC choose quality - disable all filters, add back later if needed, each filter hurts performance.
Disable automatic deinterlacing, slide bar from left to right. Left is easiest on GPU. Right is vector adaptive (VA) best quality but hardest. Not sure your apu can do VA on 1080i content.
3- open xbmc settings-> playback (enable expert mode), choose. Dxva2, adjust refresh to match- always, sync to display yes, av sync DUP/drop..
4- system > system > video output > display mode- full screen #1, verticals sync - always on.
System > audio output , choose the Hdmi direct sound, disable pass through.
5) create an advanced setting.XML file. You must create a latency delay if you have av sync or lipsync issues from hardware delays. My avr has delay with anything, BR, set top, etc...
I will post up my file.
This is what works for me..
Auto-Deinterlacing is another topic. Doable, but if done wrong PQ stinks. 24p the topic here is progressive anyways, so not needed.
2014-02-25, 07:10
To help with lip sync issues.
You must create a file. Advancedsettings.xml
see http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Advancedsettings.xml
In win 7 it is in:
c:\users\my_account_name\appdata\roaming\xbmc\userdata
Advancedsettings.xml:
to back up your user data folder:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Userdata
For Gotham:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Development_builds
-->>> http://mirrors.xbmc.org/snapshots/
You must create a file. Advancedsettings.xml
see http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Advancedsettings.xml
In win 7 it is in:
c:\users\my_account_name\appdata\roaming\xbmc\userdata
Advancedsettings.xml:
Code:
<advancedsettings>
<video>
<latency>
<delay>0</delay>
<refresh>
<min>23</min>
<max>24</max>
<delay>225</delay> <!-- set to zero or adjust if audio seems out of sync with 24p movies -->
</refresh>
</latency>
</video>
</advancedsettings>to back up your user data folder:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/?title=Userdata
For Gotham:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Development_builds
-->>> http://mirrors.xbmc.org/snapshots/
2014-02-25, 07:45
Lastly if windows is a bust for you (really it should work), for AMD APUs:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=174854
Frodo stinks on AMD APUs on linux. Linux Catalyst driver support broke that. Gotham works amazingly well on linux. I have 2 other Xubuntu boxes on it.
IMHO- Fritsch is truly an asset to XBMC. You will see all of the work he has done on the other thread. I don't think he sleeps.
My WD player was converting 24P to 59.94FPS. YUCK. To a picky, trained eye, NOTHING is perfect.
24P should be 24P. 29.97 29.97, 59.94 59.94. Not a big fan of additional/dropped frames. Creates small jerks, etc.
Hopefully XBMC can bring you what you are looking for.
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=174854
Frodo stinks on AMD APUs on linux. Linux Catalyst driver support broke that. Gotham works amazingly well on linux. I have 2 other Xubuntu boxes on it.
IMHO- Fritsch is truly an asset to XBMC. You will see all of the work he has done on the other thread. I don't think he sleeps.
My WD player was converting 24P to 59.94FPS. YUCK. To a picky, trained eye, NOTHING is perfect.
24P should be 24P. 29.97 29.97, 59.94 59.94. Not a big fan of additional/dropped frames. Creates small jerks, etc.
Hopefully XBMC can bring you what you are looking for.
2014-02-25, 09:40
To get perfect playback, three things are needed:
a) The fully correct modeline to realy have 24*1000 / 1001 hz
b) Everything the TV thinks it can do smarter disabled (clearSomething, calculating in between images, 500hz motion compensation ...)
c) Most rips are not perfect, therefore they sometimes slightly vary. Therefore we have Sync Playback to Display with method Video Clock (Drop / Dupe Audio). This is a hpet that measures swapbuffers and compares with the clock.
Especially a) is a big problem since years on nvidia hardware on linux. They don't find 24.0 nor 23.976 automatically and add a 23.9701 or something refreshrate.
And now something important. We use swapbuffers to update the screen. At the very moment you use something like Compiz / Gnome 3 or something on linux or (!) that windows pendant (Aero?) Triple Buffering is introduced and this severly harms every Sync Method xbmc wants to use.
For Windows also check the "fake fullscreen" and "true fullscreen" settings in the wiki and also disable AERO.
And some sidenote here: When you sync to VideoClock and Audio track is "slightly off" you really fast reach 200 ms over 2 hours movie, the only thing we can do is "drop" packages in passthrough mode, that you will hear for sure (or duplicate them, which is better concerning the briiick noise).
a) The fully correct modeline to realy have 24*1000 / 1001 hz
b) Everything the TV thinks it can do smarter disabled (clearSomething, calculating in between images, 500hz motion compensation ...)
c) Most rips are not perfect, therefore they sometimes slightly vary. Therefore we have Sync Playback to Display with method Video Clock (Drop / Dupe Audio). This is a hpet that measures swapbuffers and compares with the clock.
Especially a) is a big problem since years on nvidia hardware on linux. They don't find 24.0 nor 23.976 automatically and add a 23.9701 or something refreshrate.
And now something important. We use swapbuffers to update the screen. At the very moment you use something like Compiz / Gnome 3 or something on linux or (!) that windows pendant (Aero?) Triple Buffering is introduced and this severly harms every Sync Method xbmc wants to use.
For Windows also check the "fake fullscreen" and "true fullscreen" settings in the wiki and also disable AERO.
And some sidenote here: When you sync to VideoClock and Audio track is "slightly off" you really fast reach 200 ms over 2 hours movie, the only thing we can do is "drop" packages in passthrough mode, that you will hear for sure (or duplicate them, which is better concerning the briiick noise).
2014-02-25, 16:55
(2014-02-25, 06:48)gfisher Wrote: kourampies. welcome to the xbmc fun. You *should* have no problem getting 23.976 fps on windows. Or close to it. I am very picky when it comes to playback. That GPU is stout for that task. CCC likely is set up wrong or you have a bad version of their driver. Also Gotham plays back much better. The source is much more up to date. I played with frodo for a bit on my 7750 but gotham is much better. It is in alpha but it has been good for me. You can back up user data folder if nervous, see wiki. My My main box is a win7 machine, 955be ati7750 spdif pass-thru, gotham has been stable for me.I don't see very much different from my configurations other than I don't do these "adjust refresh to match- always, sync to display yes, av sync DUP/drop.". Regarding the AVR, I configured AVR to pass through video directly to LEDTV....
Assuming your panel can do 24p.
1 try Gotham. Too many fixes.
2 goto CCC choose quality - disable all filters, add back later if needed, hurts performance.
Disable automatic deinterlacing, slide bar from left to right. Right is vector adaptive (VA) best quality but hardest. Not sure your apu can do VA on 1080i content.
3- open xbmc settings-> playback (enable expert mode), choose. Dxva2, adjust refresh to match- always, sync to display yes, av sync DUP/drop..
4- system > system > video output > display more full screen #1, verticals sync - always on.
System > audio output , choose the Hdmi direct sound, disable pass through.
5) create an advanced setting.XML file. You must create a latency delay if you have av sync or lipsync issues from hardware delays. My avr has delay with anything, BR, set top, etc...
I will post up my file.
This is what works for me..
Auto-Deinterlacing is another topic. Doable, but if done wrong PQ stinks. 24p the topic here is progressive anyways, so not needed.
(2014-02-25, 07:45)gfisher Wrote: Lastly if windows is a bust for you (really it should work), for AMD APUs:What AMD APU are you referring to? OP have a discrete AMD HD6450....
(2014-02-25, 07:45)gfisher Wrote: IMHO- Fritsch is truly an asset to XBMC. You will see all of the work he has done on the other thread. I don't think he sleeps.Nobody dispute it, but I have a problem with this reply "I have never ever read another thread with so much misinformation ... I don't even try to argue with the OPs ... ". I expected more from XBMC team member than that...
2014-02-25, 19:27
@bluray
Those do matter if you want the panel to playback at 23.976 (24P). Most sets display the freq (Hz) = Framerate 24hz (theater mode...) = 23.976 most of the time. Usually one presses i (info) on the tv remote (the TVs on screen display [OSD], not XBMC). If it just says 1080p/1080i (PCs don't usually output interlaced/telescened frames)/720P without 24HZ, then you set the PC up wrong or your AVR is doing something dumb with video processing/framerate conversion?.... Sorry no sammy's in my house for me to explain how to do this. Pannys and sonys, thus far. All of them support this. Both on Linux and Win 7 boxes.
On my sets 24P PQ is must better than 60P. Worth the testing for sure (it needs to please your eyes).
Fritsch did point out some critical things I forgot to mention-
1) I did dIsable Aero (I think on my shortcut I disabled all special effects or something (or I killed it completely on desktop/display properties), sorry it was set up a time ago), the window mode is *Critical*. All players on windows I do this for. Triple buffering...
2) Kill all video enhancers/smoother/filters/cinemotion.. in TV and in drivers. You can try to add them back one by one if you need them. (my sets remember the setting for each HDMI input so I leave that garbage off/ unless it "looks better", personal preference). It can break smooth playback. Esp. on panning scenes.
Thanks for pointing that out, (looking up his card) in case it confuses others looking at this post- He said *new*. Once I saw 6x5x I assumed (most new AMD cpus sold are APU esp. for the HTPC). I did not try to see/look up the specs of his HW, since it does/did not matter (6xxx/7xxx/8xxx=GOOD in my eyes). With unified drivers it does not matter anyways. They perform the same with 24P in most cases/baring driver bugs. I have a mix of both, all work fine for me/same xbmc set up.
People have different ways of asking for/giving help- when frustrated. Remember- You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
@bluray - If you have AMD gfx 6xxx+ I suggest you *try* Openelec Gotham Nightly on a USB:
http://xbmcnightlybuilds.com/
x86_64 for AMD grfx.
It takes 15 minutes to install/2 minutes to try with the settings I listed. Check for yourself to see if you cannot get it to work as desired. Once you verify you *can* get it to work, then set up windows the same. That is the simplest way in my eyes.
The latest nightly's can crash on some PCs, they are a good test for this kind of stuff.
Quote:I don't do these "adjust refresh to match- always, sync to display yes, av sync DUP/drop.
Those do matter if you want the panel to playback at 23.976 (24P). Most sets display the freq (Hz) = Framerate 24hz (theater mode...) = 23.976 most of the time. Usually one presses i (info) on the tv remote (the TVs on screen display [OSD], not XBMC). If it just says 1080p/1080i (PCs don't usually output interlaced/telescened frames)/720P without 24HZ, then you set the PC up wrong or your AVR is doing something dumb with video processing/framerate conversion?.... Sorry no sammy's in my house for me to explain how to do this. Pannys and sonys, thus far. All of them support this. Both on Linux and Win 7 boxes.
On my sets 24P PQ is must better than 60P. Worth the testing for sure (it needs to please your eyes).
Fritsch did point out some critical things I forgot to mention-
1) I did dIsable Aero (I think on my shortcut I disabled all special effects or something (or I killed it completely on desktop/display properties), sorry it was set up a time ago), the window mode is *Critical*. All players on windows I do this for. Triple buffering...
2) Kill all video enhancers/smoother/filters/cinemotion.. in TV and in drivers. You can try to add them back one by one if you need them. (my sets remember the setting for each HDMI input so I leave that garbage off/ unless it "looks better", personal preference). It can break smooth playback. Esp. on panning scenes.
Quote:What AMD APU are you referring to? OP have a discrete AMD HD6450....
Thanks for pointing that out, (looking up his card) in case it confuses others looking at this post- He said *new*. Once I saw 6x5x I assumed (most new AMD cpus sold are APU esp. for the HTPC). I did not try to see/look up the specs of his HW, since it does/did not matter (6xxx/7xxx/8xxx=GOOD in my eyes). With unified drivers it does not matter anyways. They perform the same with 24P in most cases/baring driver bugs. I have a mix of both, all work fine for me/same xbmc set up.
People have different ways of asking for/giving help- when frustrated. Remember- You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
@bluray - If you have AMD gfx 6xxx+ I suggest you *try* Openelec Gotham Nightly on a USB:
http://xbmcnightlybuilds.com/
x86_64 for AMD grfx.
It takes 15 minutes to install/2 minutes to try with the settings I listed. Check for yourself to see if you cannot get it to work as desired. Once you verify you *can* get it to work, then set up windows the same. That is the simplest way in my eyes.
The latest nightly's can crash on some PCs, they are a good test for this kind of stuff.
2014-02-25, 20:06
(2014-02-25, 19:27)gfisher Wrote: Remember- You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.I kill more flies with this "Flowtron Electronic Insect Killer" than anything else....
(2014-02-25, 19:27)gfisher Wrote: @bluray - If you have AMD gfx 6xxx+ I suggest you *try* Openelec Gotham Nightly on a USB:Sorry no Openelec for me. I'm very happy with Windows and with what I see on my LEDTV's. I haven't get any complain from anyone living in my house or any visitor either.....
2014-02-26, 06:17
Bluray. Glad you are happy with your win box. I am also. I think this thread was going the wrong way regarding 24p playback (Looking back). XBMC plays 24p perfectly/easily in my eyes, it is the interlaced high framerate stuff that is the *real* challenge. Sorry but maybe my *try openelec* should be directed at those having issues. I have too many thumb drives to count, so it is a habbit to recommend thumb installs for testing. It's not a perfect/only test but it has the right co$t, and it is way too easy, esp. for new users. It can be can be another method to see if your hardware has a chance of working (good ole fashioned trial and error). I like windows, the driver support is very good. Wmc7 PVR/timeshift/custom codecs/ivtc/scaling/madvr.... With windows there are too many options. I won't ditch it any time soon. Each os has its advantages. My bias is to get the job done in budget and with minimal pain - but with the BEST PQ possible. Kind of a no duh.. All of the stupid re-encoding videos has ruined me when it comes to PQ. Too much time stepping through frames..
Hopefully others reading this thread are able to get quality 24p playback too.
All of the stupid re-encoding videos has ruined me when it comes to PQ. Too much time stepping through frames..Hopefully others reading this thread are able to get quality 24p playback too.
2014-02-26, 06:31
Forgot to mention. I recall I burned my hand pouring honey into my "Flowtron Electronic Insect Killer". Go figure.
2014-02-26, 10:56
@gfisher - happy to try out openelec (running independently from a thumb drive?) - got a HD 7870 so which build? Not to take this thread too far off topic, my issue surrounds audio sync - as opposed to the visual quality of the playback - which to my eyes is perfect. I think torcar's intial response threw me on a tangent - apologies to OP.
EDIT - scratch that - looks far too problematic for my liking - too many moving parts and to many installation processes where things could go wrong - will give it a miss and remain with Windows.
EDIT - scratch that - looks far too problematic for my liking - too many moving parts and to many installation processes where things could go wrong - will give it a miss and remain with Windows.
2014-02-26, 15:53
This is a small how to which might help:
It is very simple/easy (not like the ubuntu how-to I posted), and only uses a thumb as a hard drive (like dual booting) for everything, OS/user-data.
Just tested. Works for me..
Requires 2 thumb drives that you can erase (one as installer #1/other as "new PC hard drive" #2):
1) DOWNLOAD: this archive and unzip with 7zip/winrar:
http://snapshots.openelec.tv/OpenELEC-Ge...2768a5.tar
edit: When the link breaks from updates: http://snapshots.openelec.tv/ choose xxxxxGeneric.x86_64xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.tar for AMD grfx 6xxx+ and most others (currently those drivers work).
2) FORMAT: Insert USB drive #1: From my computer/win explorer find the USB drive #1- right click, format, type fat32/fast format. Note the USB drive letter ("E: for example")
3) INSTALL: browse to folder where Openelec unpacked. Right click on file "create_installstick" (the windows batch file) and run as administrator. When prompted enter the drive letter ("E: for example"), make sure you choose the correct letter that = thumb/usb drive #1 and don't erase something else.
wait 20-30 seconds for install.
4) Insert USB thumb drive #2 (formatted Fat32)
5) REBOOT to start installer from USB #1: NOTE- if your BIOS/EUFI is not USB drive BOOT enabled (it just starts windows again from HD). You have to pres del/f2/f12 (read messages) on reboot/power on... >>> to enter "setup" and choose boot option/boot order/boot menu to allow "usb drive/thumb" boot, as a priority, 1st on list, etc. This varies a small bit by bios/PC vendor. (also many usb3.0 ports are not easily bootable, try 2.0 ports).
6) At menu- choose simple install, then choose the USB thumb #2 that you want use as the "new PC harddrive" where the full Openlec will run/live. READ carefully, don't install over PC hard drive (you can unplug power ribbon if you are worried). There are many chances to go back before it erases.
I have this version on one thumb. It is not too buggy (I use it). But AV sync and 24P (23.976) is very good out of the box for me (with the settings I listed). Now the good stuff: You can enable debugging under sys. menu, and save logs. Assuming Openelec works for you, you can look at their settings on boot, then compare that log to a broken windows install to see if any "trick" settings differences improve things on your hardware.
Once you realize how easy it is to test hardware with Openelec/OE. Using bleeding edge, even buggy versions, to see what is coming/fixes your issues, it is no big deal. You will find gems for sure.
EDIT: My best settings for 23.976 playback in OE
Note- Mode must be reset to Expert or Advanced: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1641677
System >>Settings >>System >>Video output
Vertical blank sync: Let Driver choose
System >> Video >>Acceleration:
VDPAU: On
Prefer VDPAU Mixer: ON
VAAPI: off
System >> Video >> Playback:
Adjust Refreshrate to match video: On
Sync Playback to Display: On
Sync Method: Video Clock (Drop/Dupe)
Enable automatic deinterlacing:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1641281
Tv "Display/i/info" on TV remote should display 24P/theatre mode, etc. if working.
Windows settings are similar- but choose DXVA2 and add a fixed audio delay (adjust until it has good sync.) in Advancedsettings.xml from above:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1636912
More AMD reading (a bit OT but it explains how/why Openelec *for free* works so well now on the new bleeding-edge builds.) http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-rad...26145.html
It is very simple/easy (not like the ubuntu how-to I posted), and only uses a thumb as a hard drive (like dual booting) for everything, OS/user-data.
Just tested. Works for me..
Requires 2 thumb drives that you can erase (one as installer #1/other as "new PC hard drive" #2):
1) DOWNLOAD: this archive and unzip with 7zip/winrar:
http://snapshots.openelec.tv/OpenELEC-Ge...2768a5.tar
edit: When the link breaks from updates: http://snapshots.openelec.tv/ choose xxxxxGeneric.x86_64xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.tar for AMD grfx 6xxx+ and most others (currently those drivers work).
2) FORMAT: Insert USB drive #1: From my computer/win explorer find the USB drive #1- right click, format, type fat32/fast format. Note the USB drive letter ("E: for example")
3) INSTALL: browse to folder where Openelec unpacked. Right click on file "create_installstick" (the windows batch file) and run as administrator. When prompted enter the drive letter ("E: for example"), make sure you choose the correct letter that = thumb/usb drive #1 and don't erase something else.
wait 20-30 seconds for install.
4) Insert USB thumb drive #2 (formatted Fat32)
5) REBOOT to start installer from USB #1: NOTE- if your BIOS/EUFI is not USB drive BOOT enabled (it just starts windows again from HD). You have to pres del/f2/f12 (read messages) on reboot/power on... >>> to enter "setup" and choose boot option/boot order/boot menu to allow "usb drive/thumb" boot, as a priority, 1st on list, etc. This varies a small bit by bios/PC vendor. (also many usb3.0 ports are not easily bootable, try 2.0 ports).
6) At menu- choose simple install, then choose the USB thumb #2 that you want use as the "new PC harddrive" where the full Openlec will run/live. READ carefully, don't install over PC hard drive (you can unplug power ribbon if you are worried). There are many chances to go back before it erases.
I have this version on one thumb. It is not too buggy (I use it). But AV sync and 24P (23.976) is very good out of the box for me (with the settings I listed). Now the good stuff: You can enable debugging under sys. menu, and save logs. Assuming Openelec works for you, you can look at their settings on boot, then compare that log to a broken windows install to see if any "trick" settings differences improve things on your hardware.
Once you realize how easy it is to test hardware with Openelec/OE. Using bleeding edge, even buggy versions, to see what is coming/fixes your issues, it is no big deal. You will find gems for sure.
EDIT: My best settings for 23.976 playback in OE
Note- Mode must be reset to Expert or Advanced: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1641677
System >>Settings >>System >>Video output
Vertical blank sync: Let Driver choose
System >> Video >>Acceleration:
VDPAU: On
Prefer VDPAU Mixer: ON
VAAPI: off
System >> Video >> Playback:
Adjust Refreshrate to match video: On
Sync Playback to Display: On
Sync Method: Video Clock (Drop/Dupe)
Enable automatic deinterlacing:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1641281
Tv "Display/i/info" on TV remote should display 24P/theatre mode, etc. if working.
Windows settings are similar- but choose DXVA2 and add a fixed audio delay (adjust until it has good sync.) in Advancedsettings.xml from above:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1636912
More AMD reading (a bit OT but it explains how/why Openelec *for free* works so well now on the new bleeding-edge builds.) http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-rad...26145.html
